Supervisors had a late night budget cutting session that netted approximately 6.7 million savings in the first year but many of the cuts were one year suspension of services that don’t yield much savings in the 5 year plan.  In terms of ‘illegal immigration’ the additional police staffing of 6 officers and 1 support staff civilian that were requested were removed; however Chairman Stewart made it clear that it does not mean that officers will not be perfoming those duties.  Interestingly, Chief Deane pointed out that if we were to be competitive with some surrounding jurisdictions we would be looking at hiring 100-200 officers instead of the 36 that he initially requested.  Also, the cameras for the police cruisers have at least temporarily been removed.  If staff determines the cameras are required to mitigate liabilities resulting from a lawsuit they can be reintroduced.  Still on the table for possible reductions are 85 County employees layoffs which could account for another 5 million.  The end result being a 5% increase for residential properties & a 28.6% increase on the average commercial tax bill.

113 thoughts on “Budget Recap

  1. “kgotthardt – We spoke with our teacher regularily to get additional school-work for our son. We spoke with both the princapal and the school admin, and in a nutshell they said their hands were tied.” Why didn’t you go to the school board?

  2. undecided

    Valley Girl – thanks for taking the time to write a well-thought response.

    A few notes…
    “A relatively small amount of illegal immigrants work under the table.”
    How do we know how many? How can even an expert give a ballpark? Sure, they busted 59 people with SS numbers – but that’s only 3 flop houses worth. And what about those in business for themselves – say independant contractors? painters? etc.

    You said “A couple of ways it may not be black and white.” – agreed. There are some exceptions here where they may be legal. I was speaking from the standpoint of someone else’s view that any “illegal alien isn’t really illegal” based on something written on the statue of liberty, or because it is considered de-humanizing to deem someone illegal. I dont consider any human to be illegal, only their action. Similiar to the way I would say “illecit drug user”. The user is not illecit.

    You said “I won’t even touch the part about illegals taking some sort of stance comperable to an armed conquest. It is beyond ridiculous.”
    People often point out that mexicans were in California first, and that white people were “illegal aliens” too when they first came to America.
    I was pointing that out that what they were saying would amount to a conquest. Wars were fought over these issues. I agree it is a ridicuous – but popular arguement.

    Your thought on probable cause:
    There are clear definitions for probable cause. Cops follow the same rules for everyone. If you are pulled over, and white, but have no license or way to identify yourself, your immigration status would be questioned. The latest results on who the cops pulled over showed that they played by the rules.

    Thanks for the insight and answers.

  3. Glad you all are trying to answer Undecided’s questions. Unfortunately, I get really tired of repeating myself. It’s like having to nag the kids to clean their rooms…… : )

  4. undecided

    kgotthardt – The sumpreme court ruled that illegal or not – you have a right to an education – no matter who you are.

    Our standpoint was never to stand in the way of other’s (legal, illegal, whoever) getting an education, only to get the best possible education for my son. The sheer amoung and influx of kids who had little knowledge of English (use this time to stab at my own grammar!) brought down the curve considerably.

    We decided it would be best to homeschool. It is a sacrafice – and no – I dont think it’s fair – but I would rather do that then deny any one else’s education.

  5. undecided

    kgotthardt said: “Glad you all are trying to answer Undecided’s questions. Unfortunately, I get really tired of repeating myself. It’s like having to nag the kids to clean their rooms…… : )”

    I know EXACTLY what you mean. However your issue is probably with different people asking the same questions. My issue below is the SAME person asking the same questions.

    kgotthardt said on **23 Apr 2008 at 6:10 pm:
    So, Undecided, DID you contact the school Admin. about the ESL problems?

    undecided said on 23 Apr 2008 at 7:23 pm:
    kgotthardt – We spoke about…(snipped)

    kgotthardt said on **24 Apr 2008 at 11:43 am:
    So what steps exactly did you take with the school, Undecided? I’m curious because I know this is a major complaint among some groups.

    //Hi Pot – IM Kettle!

  6. Valley Girl

    Undecided – I base that on my own personal experience as a case manager for a private noprofit who provided medical care for uninsured children inelligible for state health insurance (Medicaid or FAMIS). As I remember, we enrolled 500 kids in a specific timeframe. Of those 500 kids, 420 were undocumented. Because I had to verify parents income I was able to get a good glimpse into how they were paid. I can only think of about 15 kids whose parents had to provide a written decleration from an employer in leu of a paystub. The rest were able to provide paystubs complete with FICA and Mediacid deductions. This remained the basic scenario in my two years there.
    I also base this on the Social Security Admin unclaimed funds account and how that money has grown in relation to the growth of the undocumented population.
    In addition, I was with another nonprofit for about 4 years that worked exclusively with recent immigrants and was able to get another closehand view of the employment situations of undocumented immigrants.

    Question – what is the PW ESL program like? In Loudoun ESL kids are taught seperatly until they achieve an acceptable level of English to mainstream without negative impacts on Enlish speaking kids. In addition, there are many enrichment programs and opportunties for kids who are advanced, as well as programs for kids that struggle. The ESL population does not have a negative impact on kids in classrooms, the issue is more related to budgeting and allocations of limited resources on the macro level.

  7. “undecided said on 24 Apr 2008 at 12:31 pm:
    kgotthardt – The sumpreme court ruled that illegal or not – you have a right to an education – no matter who you are.

    Our standpoint was never to stand in the way of other’s (legal, illegal, whoever) getting an education, only to get the best possible education for my son. The sheer amoung and influx of kids who had little knowledge of English (use this time to stab at my own grammar!) brought down the curve considerably.:

    Yes, the Supreme Court ruled all children are required to have an education. I didn’t think you were saying this should not be so. But there is something else to consider here. First, undocumented or not, we have high numbers of international students in this area. Now…how do you best deal with high numbers of students who need to learn English?

    Many PWC schools have pull-out programs in which students receive specialized education just as students who have special needs do. These students also get assistance IN the classroom through a teachers’ aid. If this is happening and there is enough staffing, then it should not impact the educational level, particularly because the teachers are strictly bound to SOL policies. So what you are really talking about here is instructional method and administration. I definately would have taken this to the Super and School Board because they need to know if their ESOL program isn’t working.

    I’ve heard the many of the same people who argue about having to pay for “illegals” in the schools argue against ESOL anyway. They just don’t believe it’s okay to have foreign speaking children in the classroom, period.

  8. Decided

    kgotthardt – The school worked with us on many workarounds. He was moved up for certain classes, but when his class is 70% not speaking english, there just isn’t a lot you can do. ESOL class isn’t all day. All of the other classes suffer when you have language issues of that magnitude. I would be better off letting my wife (who is sleeping) chime in on how it all went down. I played a smaller part in the issue. I will say that I met many of the moms, who openly admitted to being illegal aliens (remember this was a few years ago). At the time I really didn’t make a big deal of it. Even my son’s 1st grade teacher said he would be better off homeschooled. We were already considering it as my wife used to be a teacher. However, not that we have 4 kids, it is not so easy.

    I do have a beef with how fast things changed around here. I don’t have the time to read and research every book and webpage under the sun to become more credible in this room, however I think my concerns as a citizen are valid. I believe that we need to – as a county AND a country, have complete control over how many can enter at a time. I believe it did happen too quick here, and I support the resolution for that reason. I understand that is was started by FAIR. I have no love for them, nor do I have any love for the Southern Poverty Law Center. Both interets are race-driven in my book. My issue is with those who are illegal. I am not concerned with what happened with immigration law 100 years ago. I am concerned about right here, right now in PWC.

  9. Elena

    Undecided
    Please explain, with unbiased evidence, how the SPLC is race driven. If there wasn’t racism or lets say for example, a hispanic teengager brutally beaten simply because he was hispanic, we wouldn’t NEED such an organziation. Is the anti-defamation league also “race driven” ?

    I think that to understand where we are today, we must first understand where we have come from, especially when it comes to the evolution of our immigration policy. That FAIR began this process IS at the very heart of what is wrong with the racial climate in PWC today. Their role cannot and should not be ignored Undecided. No one is denying that there has been a sudden demographic change, but if the next president, create the willpower to overhaul our immigration system, and people,who are proven to be hard working,independent, and committed to legal are given that opportunity, these neighborhoods will be in the EXACT same boat today. Only now we will have to find reasonable ways to deal with the tension created when their is such a sudden demographic change. I can tell you this,it won’t be a legal solution.

  10. Kenneth Reynolds

    Marie said on 23 Apr 2008 at 4:29 pm:
    Kenneth Reynolds commented about the PW Group Home. There are two of them, a girls in Manassas and a boys in Woodbridge.
    I hope this will help.
    I do not know if closing the Group Home would save the County money or not. I know that payments are made to the group home by the county out of a State program, Comprehensive Services for At Risk Youth and Families. The county has to pay 34.14% for the cost of services out general fund dollars. 65.86% of the cost of services is reimbursed by the state. Youth for Tomorrow is considered a Residential Treatment Facility. Youth for Tomorrow conducts an educational program, too. They would be charging for the Room and Board, Education and any other service the youth may need i.e. mental health services. I know the per diem cost to the PW Group Home is $175.00 per day and I do not know if there are additional costs to the County for education and counseling. Youth for tomorrow charges $130-$141 for Room and Board, $58 per day for education and if a child needs counseling that is a $14-$22 a day charge. The State reimbursement rate for Residential Services is going to increase in FY09 to localities so PW Co will be paying a higher percent of the cost for children placed in Residential Treatment. I know that in 2007 they had 69 children in the group homes.
    Marie said on 23 Apr 2008 at 4:31 pm:
    The $130-141 to YFT for Room and Board is a per day charge. Sorry, guess my fingers were going faster than my brain.

    Kenneth said – Thank you Marie…you are the type of person who has the facts, knows what she is talking about, and should be reflected in County leadership. My problem with the Group Homes is that YFT is throwing numbers at the county in hopes of stealing the job…this would all be sorted out in competitive bids and maybe public hearings. I also object to Stewart trying to use something like this as a budget gimmick….screw up this too!!

  11. Kenneth Reynolds

    James Young said on 23 Apr 2008 at 2:40 pm:
    kgotthardt, I really wish you’d make up your mind. First, you complain about targeting minorities for racist reasons. Then you complain that “they don’t care about democracy or the majority.” First, I don’t want a Board that “cares,” particularly when it does so with my money. I want a Board which faithfully executes its duties. Second, I hope “they don’t care about democracy.” Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on who’s for dinner. We don’t HAVE a democracy; we have a representative republic. As for “the majority,” I seem to recall that Chairman Stewart won election — TWICE — with rather substantial majorities, once after passage of the resolution, in the only “survey” or “poll” that truly counts. I suppose it’s your privilege to continue to whine about the resolution, but it clearly enjoys the support of “the majority.” Indeed, it enjoys the support of EVERY MEMBER of the Board, save for Frank Principi, who wasn’t there to vote for it. And he certainly hasn’t tried to rescind it. Third, “citizens’ time” is an opportunity for people to exercise their right of free speech. However, there is no concomitant obligation on the part of the Board to “listen,” which you seem to imply.

    Kenneth said – James – Corey won 55-45% in the 2nd election….true…..but remember, that wa with 30% of the county voting…….i just wanted to qualfy your grandiose statement!!!

  12. Uh, Ken, the world is run by those who show up, at least in a democratic republic. And that “30% of the county voting” is obviously much more representative than even the most outrageous showing at any County BOCS meeting, including the circus last year. Mine wasn’t a “grandiose statement,” but yours was obviously an effort to delegitimize a duly-elected official you obviously despise.

    Incidentally, did you make the same “qualification” about the Great Prevaricator’s 1992 election? Remember, he carried only 41% of the vote, with only about 50% voting. ‘Course, he got 100% of the White House. Just like Corey got 100% of the Chairmanship.

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