Done some SPRING cleaning and feeling it’s time for a change. Let’s see if we can work with this ‘template’. It needs some tweaking so please be patient. Also, I am including 3 permanent pages on the top navigation, an ‘About’ page, a ‘Solutions’ page and a ‘Wacky Comment’ page. Feedback welcome.

84 thoughts on “Let’s Shake Things UP

  1. Moon-howler

    A PW County Resident,

    It isn’t up yet. Check back next week. Admin is busy with family responsibilities this weekend. It is a great idea though. I have several suggestions I want to post myself.

    Thanks for the reminder.

  2. Moon-howler

    kgotthardt,

    The press is going to stir up something at every chance it gets. That’s what sells papers. I don’t believe every municpal government is quite as draconian as you do.

    I hope everyone is aware that restaurant workers do not have to have health inspections.

  3. Moon-howler

    I believe Luckyduck was referring to county employees, not elected officials. I think our county has made every effort to include diversity in its hiring practices, at least from what I can see when dealing with various branches of county government.

    As for the elected officials, we can only vote for those who run. (other than write ins) Those who get the most votes usually win.

    Lastly, I do not think we need to let the topic of bigotry consume us. I am all for standing up to injustice but I don’t go around looking for it.

  4. Emma

    I also think the MJM did its best to whip this up into an anti-illegal-immigration thing, taking advantage of current tensions to sensastionalize the story. Was this really such big news that it had to be above-the-fold, prominent-headline fodder? They know people are sensitive right now, and they are playing on those feelings with the prominent headline “Manassas bans illegal immigrants as peddlers.” That is inflammatory and misleading as to the real content of the story.

    Kenneth, please give the voters a little more credit than that. It’s a shame that there isn’t more voter turnout in off-year elections, but it’s still the democratic process in action. The people who don’t bother to show up get what they deserve. I never miss a chance to vote–I’ve gone to City Hall to vote in advance if I knew I was going to be unavailable on election day. Some things just take a little more effort than people are willing to expend.

  5. 1. Lucky, yes, I know what you are saying about county employees. I’ve seen that and think it’s great. Don’t you find it more ironic that this “resolution” has been passed, stirring up such a mess, considering the diversity of the employees? That’s gotta be an interesting working environment, to say the least.

    2. MH, maybe it IS the press, but the official probably should not have even mentioned the health complaints, then. Se la vie. You never know how reporters will interpret things.

    3. I don’t go looking for bigotry, either. But lately, it’s easy to see. Whenever you hear about immigrants now, there’s some “issue.” In the article, immigration is being linked to “cleanliness” in the vendors. Does EVERYTHING have to do with immigration? It’s like those newspaper comments you read in WAPO. There’s some article about street sweeping and inevitably, some fool has to say something like, “See? If it weren’t for illegals…..” This article struck me the same way.

    4. I hate solicitors behind my door too. I use to have a sign out there that got largely ignored. Street vendors are something different. Hey…we LIKE the ice cream truck around here!

  6. “Manassas bans illegal immigrants as peddlers.” Emma, I totally agree! That headline was what really set me off in the first place! It makes the City look like it’s “cracking down” on freaking ice cream trucks driven by “brown” people.

  7. “The people who don’t bother to show up get what they deserve.” That might be true, but don’t forget we had a lot of people too intimidated to show up this past election….and some of those that did got harassed at the polling sites. So much for democracy.

  8. Luckyduck

    Kgotthardt, where did you see in that article that the city was cracking down “on freaking ice cream trucks driven by “brown” people”??
    The article, from the City’s perspective simply stated they were following the federal law after some inquiries from citizens. How the paper portrayed it is beyond the City’s power to control. For all we know, this might have been sparked by a question from the paper to the city about the ctizen’s questions. But I do thing you read too much into it.

    Do I find it “ironic” that with a diverse workforce how the resolution is accepted/applied? No, I don’t. I think the county employees, for the most part, do a great job and work towards the goals developed by the county. I think county empolyees go out of their way in customer service, at least in the dealings I have had with them. Outside of the police department and a samll section of Social Services, the resolution probably doesn’t impact their daily jobs. I think the employees in both of those agencies have been uased as political footballs by the BOCS. But like most people, they will work through it.

  9. Luckyduck

    Kgotthardt, if you know anyone who was “too imtimidated to show up this past election” “and some of those that did got harassed at teh polling sites”, have them contact State/federal authorities as it is against State/federal law for each of these events to occur.

    Like MH said, it IS democracy when those who are on the ballot win and lose. If people are not satisfied with the results – get out and change the candidates. You can’t vote for those not running.

  10. Emma

    Now I’m trying to remember…was this the election where we had the ice storm that kept people away from the polls and stuck on the flyovers in the mixing bowl for hours? I’m pretty sure it was.

  11. Emma

    If I’m remembering that correctly, then you can probably blame VDOT’s lack of preparation for the poor voter turnout….

  12. Kgotthardt, where did you see in that article that the city was cracking down “on freaking ice cream trucks driven by “brown” people”??

    There was no article like this. I am saying the current article READS like this, especially with the headlines. It’s the tone.

    Ask Admin. about the intimidation at Stonewall. Somewhere, it was filmed, but no one looked at the film when the complaints were made.

    We need more candidates to run for the BOCS. I know some of us had no choices and had to resort to write ins. And I don’t mean “Ham Sandwich.”

  13. Loudoun

    kgotthardt – you are so wrong about Stonewall. I was there from 5:30 am until after the polls closed. There was no intimidation against anyone wanting to vote at the polls – period – and an investigation was conducted.

    I was, however, confronted by one of the MWB people and spoke with Nancy Lyall about it. So if there was any intimidation, it was the pro-illegal people doing it. Further, I have several witnesses who could testify to the confrontation.

    Talk about “spinning,” you need a reality check!

  14. Luckyduck

    Kgotthardt, I cannot attest to any actions at Stonewall, but I read in the papers (Post, Potomac News) that an investigation was conducted by the State and no wrongdoing was discovered. Now if people failed to come forward, that’s on them. Otherwise, the investigation has to stand as untainted and complete.

  15. inon

    “That’s all I’m saying…..that it has to be done across the board if it’s being done at all. And I have to wonder if that’s what happened, but that’s me. I always wonder.

    But again….what about this “health concern”? Why even say they have a health concern when this has never come up before? And why point it towards immigrants? Do you see what I’m saying?”

    The health concerns have always been there for any type of food industry. When it is just ice cream trucks selling prepackaged ice cream, the concern is lower. When vendors sell things such as hot dogs or foods that are cooked or prepared by the vendor, the health concern is higher whether it be Fairfax, Frederick or DC.

    That is why you can sell strawberries picked from your garden at a county farmer’s market, but you can’t sell strawberry jam you made with those strawberries without having an inspected kitchen. Little kids can’t even sell lemonade at the farmer’s market in their mom’s garden booth unless they buy it in gallon jugs from the grocery store and sell it like that. If you want to mix country time powder with water, it is considered prepared by the vendor and must have a kitchen and health inspection.

    I agree that this seems ridiculous, but it is the law. The above examples taken straight from the Manassas Farmer’s Market and have nothing to do with race.

    I also agree with you that the title of the article seemed to be baiting the reader, just like if the headline had been “City cracks down on Granny Jam Makers”…papers have always been in the business of titillating headlines. But I think you can be assured that inspection part has always been there. Maybe the problem is that the city didn’t have many vendors so the few that were in the city for years slid by the inspection and licensing process (just like they let little kid lemonade stands slip by now).

    When there seemed to be a increase in vendors and people started complaining, then the government had to comply with laws that had been on the books all along. Washington DC has had ongoing street vendor battles for as long as I’ve lived in this area. I’m sure it is because there are many more street vendors in the district than were out here where there wasn’t as much pedestrian street traffic. As this area’s population has grown and urbanized, the health concerns would go from being on the low scale to a higher more urban scale. It is a natural part of progress.

    As far as the process being fair “across the board”, I am familiar with the government agencies that handle that and they are highly beaucratic….they would be equal across the board to the point of being overly vigilent about who was complying and who wasn’t.

  16. Juturna

    KG – there is not a boogyman around every corner, please!!! You do admit that the tone (how YOU hear it) is what you are referring to and that is fair. Now perhaps your experiences have made you second guess everything you read and make it a negative however, how is that different than folks with crummy neighbors – how they see it and become negative?

    Their perception is based on their experiences. The civil servants you mention, the writers, those elected why are they all planning bad things?

    Most likely crummy neighbors in Manassas or Woodbridge would would be crummy neighbors in whatever country they left.

  17. Ask Admin. about the intimidation at Stonewall. Somewhere, it was filmed, but no one looked at the film when the complaints were made.

    As I said before, civil servants are usually the problem. However, our government has not proven itself to be trustworthy. When they prove themselves trustworthy, I will gladly say I can trust them more, but until that time…..nope.

    It’s like the people in the over-crowded neighborhoods believing the government will enforce ordinances. Nope. Didn’t happen, did it? So why should anyone passively trust the government? Obvioulsy, YOU are here advocating something which means YOU aren’t leaving it entirely up to the government either. So you are refuting your own argument and supporting mine: don’t trust the government to do things for you because guess what? If we don’t keep an eye on them, we will lose big time.

    Let’s put it another way: stay active in your democracy or it will no longer BE a democracy. The minority big mouths will drown YOURS out.

    Do you see what I am saying?

  18. “As I said before, civil servants are usually the problem.” I meant NOT the problem. DUH.

  19. Juturna

    I absolutely see what you are saying. I am not a fan of government, it is too large a process which discounts the human element in most cases and is in most cases not strategic. I think we have a better chance suceeding with local government.

    I just don’t like lumping whole groups of people with one or two names. It’s not appreciated when it’s done to you or me so we can assume that feeling is reciprocated – even if we don’t think others have feelings 🙂

    Question authority is how I have viewed almost all aspects of my life – secular and religious.

    I think that when the county did not respond to folks trying to clean up their neighborhood, the residents became angry and lashed out. Anger is a dangerous thing, it can make us behave in a way that can be unacceptable. Being angry is not wrong; it’s how long you allow yourself to be angry that is important to society.

    Name calling or lumping everyone into one or two categories calling folks Nazi’s, Hitler-esque are not helpful things to do. Get to the facts of the situation and skip the names. At the same time, realize we are all dealing with anger. Some are angry about personal experiences, some are angry about others perceived bad behaviour and some are angry about being used politically. It’s still not an excuse for being rude or name calling, it it a reason for a short period of time.

    Now that some ground has been gained on the resolutiion, it’s time to move on….. Assume victory and be gracious about it toward the losers. In this case, I think being gracious is to ignore those that are unpleasant who come here to rile up a few and to set a good example. There are some folks coming over here for a peek, maybe they are ready for a different approach. Let’s not scare them off!!! I am guilty for jumping on AW, which I will not do again. However, if they come, we, most of us, are delighted to join with them to improve the situation for everyone.

    I think we are on a similar wavelength – 🙂

  20. Emma

    I still think that that poor excuse for a bird-cage liner (the MJM) is responsible for inflaming people’s feelings. kgotthardt, you reacted to it exactly the way the writer intended you to react. I’m not implying that you can’t think for yourself, but I do think that that paper, even though it has a very clear pro-illegal-immigration agenda, will do what it can during a slow-news week to drum up some excitement, discord, and outright distrust as you describe.
    I am by no means excusing local and federal governments and blaming the reporters, but spin can be everything sometimes. What we know about how our government works is often reported by news sources that have their own agendas, unfortunately, so that perfectly well-meaning actions can seem monstrous depending on the tone.
    Part of the problem with the MJM is that many of the writers are incapable of expressing themselves well. The only reason I even subscribe to that rag is so that I can be aware of events in the community, sometimes see my kids and their friends named, and read the letters to the editor. Everything else is trash, as far as I’m concerned, and full of ridiculous misspellings and kindergarten grammar.

  21. Red Dawn

    Juturna,

    TWO thumbs up!!!!

  22. Juturna

    Sensationalism attracts attention even if you are not trying to just make money.

    Thanks Redawn, you keep those songs and you tubes coming. 🙂

  23. Moon-howler

    Emma,

    I think pretty much the same thing can be said about all home grown newspapers. They want to sell papers.

    What explains people stirring up things? I guess to achieve politial objectives. There are probably lots of other reasons also.

    I think you are right about reading the paper to stay on top of community events. It is almost critical to do so.

  24. “Name calling or lumping everyone into one or two categories calling folks Nazi’s, Hitler-esque are not helpful things to do. Get to the facts of the situation and skip the names. At the same time, realize we are all dealing with anger.”

    Ladies and Gentlemen, the only people I have called “Nazis or Neo-Nazis” are GL and the hateful followers he has in HSM. I do this because I am concerned that these people and groups, affiliated with FAIR, have become a hate group in and of themselves. I do this because it’s a descriptive term, not just a name. (If I just wanted to call them names, believe me, “Nazi” wouldn’t be my choice.) This is why I have advocated for people in HSM who are NOT hateful to LEAVE the group. HSM has become tainted with FAIR and endorsed by the KKK. Why would anyone want to stay in that group?

    For the umpteenth time, I don’t think everyone who wanted the resolution was a “Nazi.” This is GL spin. Please don’t listen to it. And PLEASE don’t make me repeat this on every string. It’s annoying.

  25. Red Dawn

    kgotthardt,

    RE: Juturna’s post on 4 May 2008 at 8:05 pm

    “Now that some ground has been gained on the resolutiion, it’s time to move on….. Assume victory and be gracious about it toward the losers. In this case, I think being gracious is to ignore those that are unpleasant who come here to rile up a few and to set a good example. There are some folks coming over here for a peek, maybe they are ready for a different approach. Let’s not scare them off!!! I am guilty for jumping on AW, which I will not do again. However, if they come, we, most of us, are delighted to join with them to improve the situation for everyone.”

    She is just saying let’s move FORWARD. We understand what you are trying to convey and advocate but like she said, let’s not scare everyone off ( turn them off) and work TOGETHER.
    Of course this song comes to mind about the name calling 🙂

  26. No, I get it. I think we moved on by posting the “solutions” list, have we not?

    Why doesn’t PN/MJM do articles about alternative solutions to the “resolution”? Or is that too “nice”?

  27. Thank you for the song as usual Red!

    Here’s my new theme song:

  28. Red Dawn

    kgotthardt,

    Good theme song and I have no doubt 🙂

    The solution thread is great and much needed. I just think some people are not as patient as others and when they see buzz words over and over again from both sides( don’t know what else to call it) it shuts their mind or interest off. (like slamming a vault door) The people that come here new and old, do not just hang out on the solution thread and when they continually see the same argument over and over…..I just don’t think they would want to hang out. Do you know waht I am saying? It is like taking a step forward and 2 steps back. We all need to rise above it. I am trying to help explain what others have been complaining about.

    Anyway,

    Happy Monday ( ick 🙁 ) lol

  29. Red Dawn

    One more thing, I am not advocating breaking the law but would someone come and pull the fire alarm and get me outta here? (JK)

  30. “Do you know waht I am saying?” Completely. And now that I have re-stated my position 100 times, I won’t feel the need to defend my reputation as a reasonable human being anymore : )

    Where is it that you need to get “out of”? Maybe we can send over the EMT’s. Oh wait. We don’t have enough of those to spare! (Couldn’t help putting that in there.)

  31. Red Dawn

    kgotthardt,

    Good one….the answer is at work…shhhh and you can tell my mind is focused on it…ok, enough, hi- ho, hi- ho off to work I go. I will be good 🙁

  32. Red Dawn

    kgotthardt,

    “And now that I have re-stated my position 100 times, I won’t feel the need to defend my reputation as a reasonable human being anymore : )”

    You are reasonable and Very CARING! We get that and greatful 🙂

  33. inon

    Juturna said “Being angry is not wrong; it’s how long you allow yourself to be angry that is important to society.”

    How right you are! I think the vast number of people upset are not opposed to immigrants in general. They were just frustrated with what happened and no one was listening. Once someone did listen, to hear some on the other side say ‘there was never any problem’ or call them racists caused even further division.

    On this forum, many have scknowledged that yes there were problems, especially overcrowding. By doing that and trying to find a solution, you have changed hearts and minds. That makes all the difference in the world.

    I think if that continues, people will come around and PWC will turn the corner towards something more positive.

  34. Alanna

    Welcome Loudoun.

    We both know that the police never bothered to investigate. Do we have to go down this road again?

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