321 Thoughts to “Come out to “economic party” number 4!”

  1. Lucky Duck

    Hi Mackie, I was not asking anything about particular people. I think that someone who has a stake in the issue, as you obviously do, have a perspective that others may not or at least different from their perspective. I think that people who deal with, work with or interact with people who are illegal or undocumented have a different insight into those that do not. I think an individual’s perspective largely defines the dividing line, if you will, of opinion.

    I understand now why you work for 100% amnesty because I would not want to pick which family members can stay and which would have to leave.

  2. Alanna

    Was the person who broke into your home ever arrested?


  3. Alanna

    The antibvbl@gmail.com address is a good email address. The problem is the US government. There are wait lines of 11 -20 years for family members. So, when someone says my family immigrated the “right way”, I can guarantee it wasn’t a one to two decade period before they were granted admission.

  4. Moon-howler

    I agree with Lucky Duck. When people come in to contact with immigrants, some who do not have legal status in the country, it changes the complexion of the argument.

  5. Lucky Duck

    Alanna, no argument that our immigration system is slow and broken, but its still our law until our politicians have the nerve to change it. Just because its slow and outdated does not give people (in my opinon) the right to disregard it and enter on their own.

    Actually, I have had two friends marry people who had to immigrate (one from England and one from Boliva) and it was five years before they were citizens. They were able to enter on visas and then obtain visas to stay and enter the process. These events took place in the last seven years, so the system can, in some rare instances, work.

    Moon-howler, I think that contact with any individuals puts a face on the process but it works both ways, it can change someone to a supporter yet cloud someone’s judgment because of their interaction.

    Thanks for the address Alanna!

  6. Emma

    How was the party? I returned from travel on Friday too jetlagged to party. I do want to meet some of you next time around.

  7. Alanna

    My grandparents were sponsored by my great-aunt, they came from Ireland after WWII. Today, someone sponsoring a family member(brother or sister) of an adult US Citizen is looking at the following: if they are from India or China, they are currently processing applications from February 15, 1997; If they’re from Mexico – December 22, 1994; the Philippines – March 08, 1986; all other countries – September 1, 1997. Just something to consider. I’m not saying it’s justification for illegal behavior but it gives some insight.

  8. Moon-howler

    Lucky Duck,

    Good point. Personal contact can go both ways for sure. On the other hand, I do think it cuts down on stereotyping in many cases, especially if your experiences are with both good and bad apples.

  9. Alanna

    Another related point, it takes a legal resident 5 years before they’re eligible to apply for Citizenship. Only after they are a Citizen can they apply for family members, so in the case of brothers and sisters of Adult Citizens(L4), add another 5 years onto those wait times. In this case, somebody from the Phillippines could be waiting close to 30 years!

    The federal government does have preference levels, so spouses have a higher priority level then siblings & married children.

    Also, the level of unskilled workers visas has been woefully lacking as well.

  10. AWCheney

    “Also, the level of unskilled workers visas has been woefully lacking as well.”

    Don’t you think that the over-abundance of unskilled, illegal alien workers may well have something to do with that, Alanna? I’ve been saying all along that we MUST address, and close, our porous borders before we even consider immigration reform. It’s “putting the cart before the horse” if we don’t. And I guarantee that the cart will overturn if we allow entry of multitudes of additional unskilled labor, even if they are legal. Employers who are exploiting the illegal workers, who are in turn exploiting the benefits provided them and their families by our taxpayers, will continue to hire those who will work for less. All we’d do is add more people to our unemployment rolls.

  11. Elena

    We need an immigration forum that would include immigration historians, immigration attorney’s, immigrants, economists, law enforcement, and I’m sure a few others I left out. I for one would love to see a really topnotch forum put together so we could get some objective, or as objective as possible, information.

  12. Elena

    The party was really great, as usual. 9500 liberty had a brief screeing of some of the new material, but mostly, people ate, drank, talked, and had a good time. I really wish you, Elvis, LPOW, and others could make it some time. There is nothing like putting a face to a name to really open up dialogue, at least that’s my opinion. I said this earlier to Lucky Duck, we can disagree without being disagreeable, and that is where people can find some common ground to work from.

  13. Lucky Duck:

    I think that someone who has a stake in the issue, as you obviously do, have a perspective that others may not or at least different from their perspective…
    I understand now why you work for 100% amnesty because I would not want to pick which family members can stay and which would have to leave.

    Actually Lucky, I’m advocating 100% and easy visas for one reason: to solve the illegal immigration issue once and for all so that we can begin building a fortress wall on the border, manned with soldiers and sown with mines. For me, the most important metric when weighing the options is time. The best solution is the one that will be implemented the quickest. That is amnesty and easy visas. It honestly has nothing to do with my family.

  14. Leaving Point of Woods


    No, the police interviewed him after a neighbor ID’d him as one of the several people seen fleeing from my house and then were waiting for me to return home to identify possible stolen goods. By the time I returned home, this person who had been living in the house next to me fled, and has never been seen again, and his roommates “don’t know” where he went (that is, they are covering up for him). And all the stolen property is gone, which I suspect when the police got there – probably at least some of it may have been in that townhouse (2 laptops, a TV, and my wife’s credit cards as she usually doesn’t carry them with her if she is with me – which we were together on vacation out of town and this happened 2 days before we returned). I have reason to believe his roommates were probably involved too, but the neighbor who observed this could not 100% ID any of the other culprits. Then again, as a few days later that neighbor had retribution in the form of rocks against his house in the middle of the night – I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

    In any event, this person, along with all others involved, remain free. Who knows where this person went, it must be nice to be able to pick up in the middle of the night and disappear, and go live somewhere else – to escape personal responsibility for something you did. The police said he had no identification or documentation – and I guess they have a “name” that he gave them. Then again, the Manassas police handled this whole case so ineptly – who knows. Why he wasn’t arrested on the spot when the neighbor ID’d him as one of those breaking into my house, is one of many things that leave me scratching my head wondering.

    If I had no identification and could give them a phony name (or my real name but there’s no way to trace my whereabouts) and knew the police wouldn’t arrest me right away and allow me to escape to places unkown, it would be great incentive to go steal things, etc.

  15. LPOW:

    If I had no identification and could give them a phony name (or my real name but there’s no way to trace my whereabouts) and knew the police wouldn’t arrest me right away and allow me to escape to places unkown, it would be great incentive to go steal things, etc.

    This sounds like a case of the Keystone Cops. It’s unfortunate the guy got away.

  16. Leaving Point of Woods

    Indeed, I think the Manassas city cops are like the Keystone Cops, Mackie. You are correct there. Then again this has been my only interaction with them so maybe it is not fair to draw that conclusion, I don’t know. However, I’m moving out of the city in a few months so I won’t have to worry what it is that my tax dollars are paying for, in terms of the police force.

  17. Leaving Point of Woods

    Then again, I should amend what I said above: I will be renting out my townhouse for the forseeable future – as it makes no sense to sell it given that I have two foreclosures across the street going for $160,000 each. So I still will be a city taxpayer, unfortunately, but hope not to be in 2 or 3 years – as soon as the market recovers, I’m going to sell the townhouse and get out completely. If I thought I could get $210,000 for it TODAY I’d sell it right now and be done with Point of Woods. Any price below that I feel is unacceptable, and also the probability of selling it by mid-October is slim to none. I’d still make a profit on it at $160,000, but it seems silly to price it at that to compete with the foreclosures across the street. And even then, they’ve been up for sale for 2 months now. I either need to sell or rent by mid-October (I need the money from either the rent or house sale to afford the new house) – and it seems a lot easier to rent by then, then to sell by then.

    This is a very long way of saying that unfortunately, I will still be a city taxpayer, so I guess I still will be paying taxes for the inept Manassas police for the foreseeable future, unfortunately. I’d love to sell my house and be completely out of Point of Woods, but given the current real estate market it just isn’t possible. Also anyone looking at the house next to me, with a pile of ugly dining room furniture on their deck including a credenza (that they have no room for inside I guess because they turned it into a bunkhouse) would think twice about buying my house. But even if my house is vacant, the builder will be paying me rent through their guaranteed lease program, for up to 2 years. Otherwise right now I’d be very very nervous about whether I’d either sell or rent my house between now and mid-October.

    Then again, I don’t know what kind of tenants the builder’s agent is going to find for my townhouse – and that makes me a bit nervous. Although the builder’s agent inspects my property before renting it, and anything that breaks afterwards, is the renters responsibility. So I hope to be protected in that way.

    This is just a small sample of some of the problems I’ve had to figure out how to resolve, in my attempt to move out of Point of Woods. I’m not sure who in their right mind would rent my house, once they see what the house next to me looks like, and hear the constant noise emanating from that house. But if my house sits vacant, I still get a rent check for the next 24 months. At that point, I hope to somehow unload the house, assuming the real estate market is better.

  18. OneForTheRoad

    I have a better idea for you LPOW. Why don’t you just knock down the walls between your house and the house next to you. Then the people next to you won’t be overcrowding their house, and you can rent your house out to them, and everyone will be happy.

    Intead all you do is whine and moan about the people next to you. Ever think they may not be able to afford to live in a less crowded house?

    But being the racist you are you assume everyone can live 2, 3, or 4 people to a house. In your racist world maybe, but not in the REAL world, which you seem to not want to be part of. Maybe you are the one who should leave this country, not the hard working undocumented workers you seem to hate so much and want to send back to the countries they came from!

  19. Red Dawn

    One for the road,

    I have a question for you.What do you suggest the non-racist people do to solve neighborhood problems,etc.?

    What would be your approach to ME, that has a “paper trail” due to being BORN here and my family that preceded me? What about all those things I was taught here in America about growing up , getting a driver’s license, establishing credit and making damn sure I keep my good credit so I can buy a car, purchase a home, accrue and pay the bills on time.

    I succeeded at all the above and chose to have kids with their OWN separate paper work just as the generations BEFORE me.
    What is it that you would suggest I do, to make it fair?

  20. OneForTheRoad

    But how is that fair to the millions of undocumented workers who can’t get a driver’s license, because the state of Virginia won’t issue them one? How is that fair to the millions of undocumented workers who can’t get a legal social security card? You were lucky Red Dawn and now are reaping the benefits of your luck. Is it fair that we deny these people the same benefits. They might not be overcrowding houses if they could get decent jobs for decent wages, but we won’t allow them to do that because they can’t get a legal driver’s license and a legal social security card. And they can’t establish credit without them.

    How is all of that fair? People like you stack the cards against the undocumented workers, and then complain when they have to share the rent among many of them, to make ends meet. Let them get driver’s licenses, get social security cards, earn decent wages, and establish credit on those social security numbers, and that will fix everything. That is what amnesty should do. If you are opposed to amnesty then you are saying you want to keep stacking the deck against them.

  21. Lucky Duck

    One for the Road, Illegal aliens can’t get a SSN and/or a Driver’s lIcense because the laws have been set up by us, the legal citizens and their representatives to deny those benefits to non-citizens. Can YOU go to Canada, Mexico, England and get a Driver’s license today? Can YOU participate in Canada’s Social Medical Plan tomorrow? How about England’s unemployment payouts, want to try to get some of that? No, of course not, those are benefits or rights that Citizens of those countries decided only Citizens should have.

    Its not about being “fair”, because all countries reserve rights for their citizens that you and I could not obtain. We, as America, are not obligated to hand out our citizen’s rights to anyone or everyone, particulary those who are here illegally.

    I am opposed to 100% amnesty to anyone. A pathway to citizenship, with a fine and back taxes verified or paid, a background check and absolutely not one person who participated in or was convicted of any criminal behavior, to include identity use or theft is a decent compromise.

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