122 thoughts on “Really Corey, did our crime rate “plummet by 20%” after the “crackdown” ?

  1. Elena

    PW Resident,
    Logic dictates that a resolution passed in the latter part of 2007, October, would have no impact on the crime statistics for the previous ten months. I don’t have to be a statistician to understand that premise. Where are you seeing 20% decline in overall crime , what report are you reading? Inflammatory? Corey outright stating something as fact, when indeed, it is not, is infammatory. As a leader of this county, he should absolutely, given the sensitivity of immigration, being espousing information that is based on solid facts.

  2. A PW County Resident:

    And gee, taking someone to task because they said democracy versus republic? Pretty lame.

    What’s lame is not knowing the difference and especially not knowing that our system of government is a republic. The difference is huge. A true patriot would never confuse the two.

    Isn’t there something abhorrent about saying you advocate the removal of working class immigrants for the good of the country when you don’t even know what kind of government your country uses?

  3. TWINAD

    Lucky Duck,

    Thanks for the information. I agree, I believe + or – 800 people have been turned over to ICE, but there is no way Corey can be truthful in saying that many have been deported.

    ICE doesn’t immediately deport the vast majority of people they detain in raids and they only hold most of them for a day or a few days at the most unless they are identified as criminals. If they aren’t deporting the people they are detaining themselves, I can’t imagine they are deporting all of PWC resident’s turned over to them for driving without a license or for a traffic stop infraction.

  4. Lucky Duck

    The only quick deportations, according to ICE, are those individuals that are already under a deportation order and have not shown up and are caught and those that have been deported once before and are caught again.

    While you are correct in stating that ICE does not immediately deport the others brought into custody, it does start the process for those individuals. It may take a while, but they are in the process and its very, very difficult for them to beat ICE. The immigration court system is not like our criminal court system. The onus is on the defendant to overturn the government’s evidence, as opposed to our criminal court system in which the government must prove the case. I would not want to be in an immigration court trying to overturn the government’s case. Those victories are few and far between.

  5. SecondAlamo

    So Mackie, a true Patriot would NEVER support Illegal Immigration. I served my country honorably, how about you? My comment referred to the democratic process of electing officials by majority vote of those governed, but then pick away if it makes you feel more Patriotic. My reference to ‘dealing with it’ is that you can whine all you want, but apparently there are a lot more (majority) that support Corey’s actions, hence his election. This is one Patriot that supports law enforcement, as opposed to anarchists who are constantly trying to oppose it.

  6. SecondAlamo

    TWINAD,

    I may be wrong, but I thought there were 700 to 800 people already held in jail for crimes that were being processed for deportation. Those people are, as you state “unless they are identified as criminals” are criminals and therefore would be deported, and not released. So, I think Corey is correct.

  7. Moon-howler

    Stewart spews ‘statistics’ that he wants to represent his point of view. He has not backed up these figures. He has attempted to establish cause/effect relationships where none exist.

    Corey just need to be truthful. That is all we ask. Crime has not decreased by 20% since the Resolution was passed, any of the 3 times. If he has statistics to show this, where are they? How come he would have numbers different from PWCPD? Seems strange to me.

    I feel certain that PWC has not deported over 800 ‘illegals’ because only a federal judge can order a deportation. Corey would be correct if he said that the ADC turned over 800 illegal immigrants to ICE. We do not know if they were deported or not. The spin is just amazing.

    Finally, Corey needs to leave THE sign comments to the City of Manassas officials, rather than whining that ‘it isn’t fair.’ How embarrassing. Talk about sending mixed messages.

  8. TWINAD

    SA,

    They may have been held in PWC jail and turned over to ICE, but in no way does that mean they have already been deported, which is the statement Corey made. ICE only holds “the worst of the worst” or they deport the people that have already been deported once or have a deportation order in place already. If he can show evidence that over 800 people have ALREADY been deported, as he states, then okay. But I don’t think he can and I don’t think anyone else does either. He messed up his statement on TV…but do you think he will correct himself? I don’t. Not unless someone forces him to.

    Lucky Duck,

    Agreed on your post regarding the difficulty in avoiding eventual deportation or voluntary deportation. But it appears to me that ICE is deliberately dragging their feet on all cases where the people are not “real” criminals until comprehensive immigration law changes are made that would allow many of these people to stay…not people arrested for DUI, rape, etc. But people caught in work raids, or traffic stops,etc. I mean, I know some people detained in one of the raids and their ICE case worker says it will be years before their case is decided.

  9. SecondAlamo

    If all the county can do is turn people over to ICE for future deportation, then the county has done the most it can, so therefore it is accomplishing the only goal obtainable. The technical issue of what truly happens to these people under ICE authority is out of Corey’s control, and so that is the most he can take credit for. Technically his statement was flawed, but the intent to show that the Resolution is doing all it can do was correct.

  10. Moon-howler

    SA,

    He needs to be truthful. He needs to say that the county has done its part. What he doesn’t need to do is say that the deportation of over 800 has happened because of the resolution and that the county has deported them. The resolution has nothing to do with the 800 plus illegal aliens being turned over to ICE. The county can deport no one.

    When we start dealing with facts rather than spin, perhaps we can start cleaning up the mess this county has made of this issue.

    Yes, illegal immigration has impacted our area. No one denies that. Many of us would have preferred to take that wasted 4 million dollars and infused it into agencies like Neighborhood Services, where the money could do some good. More importantly, we would have control over our money. Instead, we really have a resolution that does nothing other than eat money. We have a damaged national reputation and resident has been pitted against resident. Corey needs to learn the issues and to speak to them honestly.

  11. Casual Observer

    Very interesting article today in a NJ paper about a man who created and led a “Rule of Law” anti-immigration group — and why he’s now left that group, and changed his mind:

    http://dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080716/COMMUNITIES34/807160442&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

  12. Moon-howler

    Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing this article Casual Observer.

  13. Casual Observer

    Thanks, MH! I also found the readers’ comments eerily familiar! I think FAIR may have its sites set further on up 95, but the township/borough decentralized form of government in NJ will make it difficult –and expensive –for them to get any kind of momentum. They’d have to have resolutions proposed and enacted in every locality, which is why the Riverside, NJ laws failed so miserably.

  14. TH

    I think the problem with comparing numbers is about understanding their significance. The difference between crime percentages doesn’t mean that statistically you can defend it. It could have been caused by chance.
    Where do I find the raw data to run some analyses?
    By tha way, Elvis is not a lawyer, he is a rocket surgeon.

  15. Juturna

    Casual – that is a great story. Glad to see a thread about it. It’s a bittersweet story though. Why do we inflict so much pain on ourselves and others rather than try to think a little differently?
    Thank you for posting it.

  16. Juturna

    TH – Go to DOJ and search UCR (Uniform Crime Reporting). UCR methodology takes the more serious of the crime and reports only that therefore in the case of a carjacking, where one victim is assualted and one killed only the homicide is reported.

    The Virginia State Police now use a different methodology based on the number of incidents – in the case above they report all three.

    I explain that incase you do a comparison of the two VSP will look much higher than DOJ.

    Both websites have the data I think you are looking for.

  17. Lucky Duck

    Twinad, I know it takes years for an immigration case to get through the system, but people I know who work for ICE would strongly dispute your comment that ICE is “deliberately dragging their feet” on any deportation proceedings. While it is true that higher profile illegal alien criminals may draw more attention and are a higher priority for the immigration system (that would slow others down), there are court dates set for everyone in the deportation process and there are a very limited amount of immigration courts. In addition, there are numerous appeals for each individual to use if they so desire. So perhaps your friend’s attorney meant that it would be or could be years for a final outcome, which is more than likely true, as opposed to a first court appearance or ICE interaction.

  18. Juturna

    I am sure they are doing their best with the funding resources provided them. Like the rest of us, they are a bit short or DHS is not very strategic when it comes to funding.

  19. TWINAD

    Lucky Duck,

    Yes, you are right…I haven’t checked my wording above, but I did mean years before the final outcome, not the first court date. And it wasn’t the attorney that said this, it was the ICE case worker assigned to monitor the guy making his way through the system.

  20. Alanna

    LD,
    What I find odd, are cases where ICE goes into the raids with helicopters and all the show of a spectacular event but then immediately release them with the majority of the rest being released within a few weeks. It seems a bit theaterical.

    It does cause me to question whether or not those 750 persons who have been handed over to ICE have actually been deported, or just detained, or conceivably released.

  21. Lucky Duck

    Hi Alanna, I agree that part of those raids are for show, to the public at large, government funding sources and employers.

    But the part that everyone forgets is that such an action introduces dozens or hundreds of people into the immigration system with a final outcome of either deportation or some type of adjusted status (at least in the past). So while some are released, they are not forgotten by ICE. To me, that may be worse than knowing my fate immediately. Its like waiting for the gallows to be built. I know you have stated that you have known people in such a legal limbo. I have met them too and some are resigned to their fate of deportation but want to stay as long as they can. That’s no way to live.

    Even if everyone of those 750/800 (?) people have been released (law of averages would dictate some are still in custody today), they are on the path to deportation or, an unlikely event that will adjust their status. But that are starting down the slipperly slope.

  22. El Guapo

    Bold face lies by politicians rarely affect a politician. The Bush administration’s false claims that the outrageous Medicare drug handout would only cost $400 billion probably didn’t cost a single vote in 2004. Corey Stewart will hardly face any criticism from his supporters for the outrageous lies he’s been spreading despite the clear evidence to the contrary.

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