A Place for Civil Debate: A Blog for Grown Ups
Barak Obama has apparently picked Senator Joe Biden as his VP.
I agree with Makie. The hate meters were highest in 2007. That’s when it looked bad for comprehensive immigration reform (extremists dishonestly call it “amnesty” hoping to create more extremists). The hate meters are dwindling now, because our leaders are no longer using hate speech on the campaign trail. Lou Dobbs and talk radio has a certain goon squad they can always call upon to be hateful toward someone. But mainstream America is becoming less and less favorable toward hate as a substitute for wise policy initiatives.
Yes and the wise policy initiative we are inexorably moving towards is to tell people they will suffer if they come here illegally, rather than prosper – hence we move towards e-verify to take their jobs away, and build better border security.
Hoy ya hablas español? Y para qué? Solamente para ofender. Yo creía que eras ignorante pero ahora creo que sólo eres un desgraciado racista que bajo el manto de la economía solo proteje sus valores miserables. valores que nos son de este país. Quien eres para determinar quien se queda y quien se va? El hecho que tengas una esposa morena not te pone moralment arriba de nadie, sigues siendo un resentido social que quiere defender su puesto en esta sociedad denigrando a otros.
Sorry for all of those reading in English, but I have to respond to Rick in Spanish first. I just think that what Rick proposes is not based on the values that built this country. Your are under attack but no by illegal aliens, but the rich people you mentioned in your note. Your mind cannot come to terms to accept that you have been fed this story that the working class means something to the rich. It is true that this is a country of of opportunities but please don’t tell me that illegal aliens messed it up. It was messed up when you believed all the BS that the ruling class told you. Start fixing your country by addressing those issues. You said in spanish that people should be sent back to fix their countries but here you don’t want to do anything to attack directly the source of the problem. It is easy to attack the “OTHER” rather than your own people who put you in the position that you dislike.
I see Latinos voting democrat for many years to come. Think about all the American kids whose parents just want to be dumped south of the border. The Rick Bentleys will be reminded of what they are saying now.
I don’t know if you know but I find extremely offensive that Soy Culero is allowed to post here. Soy Culero translates into I am a faggot (not just gay). It is very offensive and this person is using it to play with us. I don’t know if you would allow someone to use the nickmane “I am a faggot” here. I know that it is not about banning people but in spanish he/she is saying that he wants to “scratch his balls”. I don’t think that this type of language should be allowed. Also, we use English here so we should delete those comments in Spanish that are not translated. Rick and SC are using Spanish to express very rude comments and borderline racist.
TH, I agree with you. I have said so in the past that we should stop people from using slurs and targeting cultures as a way of propping up an un-American and bigoted perspective.
Also TH, thanks very much for popping the willful ignorance bubble of Rick Bentley.
I agree also TH and thank you for the suggestion.
I find this comment very disturbing in a “democracy” and lends credibility to everything I’ve been warning all of you about.
When every future election is decided by the “numbers” of “latinos” who vote a “latino” ticket, and every future election is decided on the “numbers” of “blacks” who vote a “black” ticket, and every future election is decided on the “numbers” of “women” who vote a “womans” ticket, and every future election is decided on the “numbers” of “muslims” who vote a “muslim” ticket, and every future election is decided on the “numbers” of “Christians who vote a “christian” ticket,
THEN DEMOCRACY is DEAD, the power has been taken away from “individuals” and given to factions and facist “states” run by powerful and racist latinos, blacks, women, muslims and christians.
Sombody better tell the old people, the young people, the Asians, the muslims, the native americans, the native hawaiians, the non-christian white men and every other voter who does not belong to one of these facists political groups, that their individual vote on the “issues” does not count anymore because we no longer have a democracy, we have a facist state where the power is not in the people, but in the most powerful voting block and greatest numbers in the facist state.
The issues will no longer be important, only the number of people demographically seperated into each of these factionist groups.
Using the 2006 Census, WE can even predict the outcome of elections in 2008 and 2050.
Since non hispanic white women are typically voting liberal, and non hispanic white men (as categorized in the Census) are typically voting conservative (not really true). You can’t call the election but “CLOSE” when the genders split in their voting support, but since more women vote democratic than republican we can make some predictions based entirely on NUMBERS in racial, gender, ethnic and religious GROUPS, not INDIVIDUALS.
To make this easy let’s say we slit the non-hispanic White (NHW) population in half.
so NHW votes cancel each other out, leaving the fate of the nation (now without democracy) to be decided only by the “numbers” of recent “illegal” and previously “illegal”, and legal “immigrants” and the extremely high birth rates in the last 20 years by the “recent” immigrant population.
Hispanics 2008 15%
Blacks 2008 12%
Native Indians 0.8%
Native Hawaiians 0.14%
We should predict a narrow margin win of a black candidate in 2008, only because there is no hispanic candidate (will win the 2012 election and every election after that until 2050.
NHWM 23%, due to extremely high illegal immigration rates and high birth rates.
NHWF 23%, due to very low birth rates and liberal issues trying to get a female president
Native Americans 0.5%
Native Hawaiians 0.10%
Like I said, any hope for a leader concerned with representing everyone (by thinking only in terms of representing individuals and issues of individual rights over groups rights, rather than just his or her own ethnic, racial, gender or religious group, will be a thing of the past, and with it any concept of Democracy. By 2040, we should have an ethnic war break out, with the seeds of that war started by the election results and voter demograhics of the 2008 election.
Michael, we all are who we are. I might vote a woman ticket, or a white gay man’s ticket or a secular humanist ticket. It all balances out and who wins, wins.
For years people voted the ‘white ticket.’ As more different people are enpowered, there is more balance.
You seem overly concerned about groups. Good grief, if people didn’t vote with the groups you spoke of, then they would vote according to what part of town they were from. It is the human condition. You cannot stomp it out.
No moon howler it is not the human condition, it is the political mind set of the liberal times.
There once was a time (in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s) when people believed in voting on the issues, and were blind to race, gender, religion and ethnic group. Now the liberal mind has returned to racial, and ethnic centric thinking, except the white people are not the ones doing that now because they have forgotten what race, religion and ethnic group they POLITICALLY belong to.
You think thinking racially is right, until some white male starts think that way, then and only then do you sreams about how bad that is.
If you persist in this thinking, I predict a return to white males voting only in their own self interests, associating only with other whites POLITICALLY, and white females voting only as a white female block, until an ethnic war breaks out and they realize they have made a huge mistake, and will combine votes in order to preserve the Democracy. I think that is going to take about 20 years. By then, we will have run out of oil in Saudia Arabia, have none in the US, and will have an economic and global warming crisis on a magnitude that no nation can avoid going to war over taking resources from another nation just to economicaly survive. By that time 2030, I will have moved to China, India, Russia, Canada, or New Zealand and let you all fight it out among yourselves which ethnic group dominates the new nation that has no money and no industry.
This is what multiculturalism and diversity, and extremely high illegal immigration rates gets you. A divided nation that only votes along ethnic group lines of POLITICAL POWER. When the “numbers” of these political factions get large enough to challenge the “majority” rule of Democracy (majority is not an ethnic group in this sense), an ethnic centric war breaks out just like it has in ISREAL/Lebanon/Palistine (JEW/MUSLIM), IRAN (SUNNI/SHIITE), IRAQ (MUSLUM SUNNI/SHIITE), BOSNIA(MUSLIM/CHRISTIAN), and IRELAND (PROTESTANT/CATHOLIC), CANADA (ENGLISH/FRENCH), DENMARK (SOCIALIST/MUSLIM), SOMALIA (MUSLIM/CHRISTIAN), PERU (HISPANIC/NATIVE), MEXICO (HISPANIC/NATIVE), COLUMBIA (HISPANIC/WARLORDS), KOREA (SOCIALIST/DEMOCRACY), RUSSIA (CHRISTIANS/MUSLIMS).
“There once was a time (in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s) when people believed in voting on the issues, and were blind to race, gender, religion and ethnic group.”
Seriously…SERIOUSLY??? People were blind to these differences from the 1960s to the 1990s? I MUST have been living on a different planet, because my memory and sense of history seems markedly different than the last part of your statement. Wow!
Gotta tell ya…I am watching the DNC currently. Michael, I think you would love what Jesse Jackson, Jr. just said about America rising and falling together as a nation. It is very collectivist, and looks at America as a whole rather than in groups; I immediately thought of you and how you might actually appreciate the message:)
Alright, let’s give SC notice.
Michael, I have to ask about that planet also. Let’s just take the most obvious: the dixie-crats. Why did independents like George Wallace run? These people were NOT liberals. Not even in jest. Short, sweet and to the point, it very much is part of the human condition to be very aware of group differences.
“Rick and SC are using Spanish to express very rude comments and borderline racist.”
My comments were pointed but by no means racist. I stated that those who come here illegally are just helping the rich to get richer here, while the rich in their own lands dominate their country even more, and that if they weren’t such cowards they would stand and fight in their own countries instead of making this one worse.
Same stuff I say in English.
There was a time in the 60’s when the national debate was on whether black people should be allowed to drink from public water fountains used by whites, and go to the same colleges. In your personal highly warped version of history people were blind (when voting) to race?
Come on let’s at least interpret history reasonably. If you are so concerned with white identity you have that right but let’s not reinvent history.
“A divided nation that only votes along ethnic group lines of POLITICAL POWER.”
I don’t like that either but … people do have a right to vote how they want I believe?
White men tend to vote en masse for the GOP … does that bother you? Is that to do with ethnic group lines of political power?
Not Ricardo, it is not the same stuff you say in English. You said that Spanish was the language of people who break the law. Since when breaking the law is associated with speaking Spanish? You don’t say that in English because right there your biases comes to light. If i were you Richard, I would write a letter to the Lakers and the Spurs administration to keep an eye of on Gasol and Ginobili because I can only see red flags when they speak Spanish.
In your ignorance, you cannot see the literature or research conducted in Spanish-speaking countries.
I think you are a coward too when you think that by getting rid of 6.6 % of the US population will fix all our problems. You are married to an African American woman. You are well aware of the issues that DC(Anacostia) faces. Nothing in that segregated community will be fixed by getting rid of illegal aliens. Are you worried about the education of African Americans? more real opportunities for them? Give some examples of what you are doing to fix the problems and not just blaming illegal aliens for what you experience with your neighbors.
You said you travel and that you experience the problems of divided nations. You failed to see something about the majority/minority interactions: the abuse from the majority. Let’s no go to the former Yugoslavia, let’s just stay here. Do you expect that people should tolerate abuse and neglect just to contribute to our “Democracy”? I think riots are just a consequence of that neglect. remember the MLK riots in the area? Those violent acts were not rooted on an ethnic group trying to get more but what they deserved. You had segregation for so many years and then you expect that people won’t try to get more representation in the local, state, and federal legislatures. It is not about power or equality but getting the same opportunities for everybody. All the problems that you mentioned happened because one group decided that they were more equals than others (such as the apartheid) and then the new majority decided that enough was enough.
We still have a chance to make things right. It doesn’t have anything to do with illegal immigrations or supporting minorities. Start by investing on good schools for everybody not just for those who can afford to live in the right neighborhood.
I don’t think that’s quite what I said TH. But maybe it is – I used an automatic translator.
I don’t have time for a big discussion on how to improve inner-city poverty. But I will say, the people in DC would have more resources available were it not for the influx of illegal poor that their Congressmen and Senators preside over.
The same can be said of the ILLEGALS that think the southwest belongs to them. The majority has said enough is enough and they are now fighting back with enforcement of laws and resolutions to take care of the deficiencies of the gov’t.
Rick, I think your statement holds true for all, not just DC.
It’s such a dumb and obvious ploy to create a totally objectionable somebody to shield you from having to make a cogent argument. If that’s all you have, I can bring up a “badge of honor” KKK member who runs a sheriff department and destroys a state economy. Hard to defend. But then again, not the subject here.
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