Don’t say it doesn’t exist. See it with your own 2 eyes. What amazes me is that some people feel this is an ok way to talk in public. We all know of people who say things like this in private, but public? Is that what makes this so different?

Most people don’t feel many of these behaviors are appropriate. Was John Murtha right or was he out of line? He said that Western Pennsylvania was a racist area. Then he backed off a bit, and said that some of the older people were.

Should we expect Prince William to have this kind of performance tomorrow? Absolutely not. Prince William County, despite our rather tumultuous past year, is better than this!

America has a ways to go, it seems. A long way to go. Seeing something like this sort of leaves a person speechless.

[Disclaimer: This activity was outside and NOT part of any inside rally. The behavior was not condoned by Governor Palin.]

74 Thoughts to “Ugly in America”

  1. From an interview between Gutierrez and Horowitz (for an academic earful on Horowitz whom many don’t consider a true academic, just ask and I will gladly get you some more fun reading):

    Gutierrez: You get a D- in
    Spanish! La Raza is the Mestizo
    people. The civilization that was
    created between Spaniards and
    other Europeans and Indian
    women and some Africans.

    ______________________________

    Gutierrez: I have served in the
    U.S. military have you Horowitz?
    I have served and held public
    office.

    __________________________

    Hannity: Did you ever say “Our
    devil has pale skin and blue
    eyes?”
    Gutierrez: No!

  2. MH I think he’s a radical from the 60’s who has served in a number of useful capacities. He’s probably not my cup of tea either, but he comes from the culture of persecution and struggle for Civil rights, the anger of which we still hear in people like Rev. Wright. We’d like them to “get over it” but it seems they can’t (and in some cases, probably SHOULDN’T). I don’t think these folks represent the majority at all, but like all groups who are angry and radical, you can trace their emotions and actions back to a source. We can do it with HSM as well. We can do it with Horowitz as well.

  3. NotGregLetiecq

    P as P, thanks for all the research. I’ve always known that the hate propaganda against La Raza was untrue. Hate propaganda usually is.

    What does it take to be one of those people who believes hate propaganda as a matter of course? Like the people in this video (remember, the supposed topic of this thread?), how did they become so controlled by those who tell them when and who to hate? Have they been controlled that way all their lives? Or did they learn to be controlled during the Bush years? Or was it the advent of right wing talk radio? What sort of upbringing does a child need to have to believe hateful lies with no regard for factual evidence, going only on the ideology of those who impart these lies?

    AWCheney, you seem much to smart to be one of these people? How did you get caught up in this? What’s your game? Why do smart people pretend to believe such dumb ideas?

  4. Here’s why I think this guy is kind of a 60’s relic (or as Gurierrez puts it, “dinosaur”):

    –And the militants who organized and led the original Chicano movement are no longer young. “We’re past middle age,” Mr. Gutiérrez says. “Our generation has given its last hurrah. We’re like dinosaurs heading for extinction.”

    The Crystal City firebrand of the old days is a gray-haired grandfather now, with “Ph.D.” after his name. He’s about to start his 11th year as a professor of political science at the University of Texas at Arlington. He has a law office in Oak Cliff. He’s recognized as a distinguished author, editor and lecturer.

    “The generation that succeeded us got the benefit of us confronting racism head-on,” he says. “And, to their credit, a lot of gringos stopped being racist. Maybe they still are privately, but not in their policies. Most people now are at least civil and polite. It’s not politically correct to be a bigot in public.”

    Nevertheless, the Chicano fight isn’t really over. The political and social situation of Mexican people in Texas is worse now, he says, than in the ’70s.

    “Our numbers are larger, but we’ve made very little gain in educational attainment. We’re poorer than we were then. We’re less skilled than we were then. We’re sliding.

    “But I have a sense of humor. I still maintain optimism. I think we can make it better.”–

    from: Dallas Morning News
    Tuesday, July 29, 2003
    High Profile : José Angel Gutiérrez

    By Bryan Woolley / The Dallas Morning News

  5. NotGregLetiecq

    Fontbonne, I’m quite heartened to hear that PWC Republicans did not do anything to embarrass the county during the rally. If there was anyone wanting to yell something racist, they had probably learned their lesson after watching how it backfired with the Duecaster Disaster, Corey Stewart, and Help Save Manassas. Actually, those guys don’t even like McCain because he sunk the anti-immigrant ship during the primaries.

  6. NGL, I didn’t mean to hijack the thread with all the Guierrez stuff. I get carried away once I start looking things up sometimes 🙂

    I used to think people believed propaganda because they didn’t have critical thinking skills. My theory is expanding, however. Some of it has to do with what we WANT to believe because it suits our personal philosophies and justifies our actions. It’s kind of like doing unethical research by refusing to report ALL the findings—you take only a piece and say, “See???? I was RIGHT!” and therefore, you can justify anything. That “info” person does it all the time, hoping one-sided research will somehow make us understand how evil all those “illegals” are.

  7. NGL, I find it interesting that you can make such an assumption about me based merely upon my posting of a portion of a Gutierrez speech in a YouTube video. I may be wrong, but I believe that Moon-Howler got the point of it. Actually, Posting As Pinko (kgotthardt?) has provided some excellent basic research on the subject of Guttierrez, which really hasn’t contradicted my opinion of him, and the other information about La Raza I posted came directly from their site (with the exception of the school information, the source of which is some research I did on Aztlan and issued from my recollection rather than actually pulling it out of my massive research data base on this). The only evidence offered in direct contradiction was an “open letter from La Raza”…hardly objective. I don’t think that I’m the one making out-of-hand assumptions about people here.

  8. Moon-howler

    He sounded like a nasty bastard to me, but what do I know.
    No peace prize for Sr. G.

  9. info

    Hate in their own voices

  10. AWCheney,

    I see you’re up to your fear-mongering again.

    Only people like you, people who have an agenda, actually care what this guy says. Without him, you’ve got a lot less tools with which to fear monger.

  11. Moon-howler

    Yes, Professor G is ugly talking, to stick with the theme of this thread. He does not speak for the entire hispanic community. I would venture to say many have never heard of him.

    I also don’t think that the man holding the Obama monkey in the video speaks for the entire Republican community.

    I don’t think that Corey Stewart’s reign of misinformation about crime decreases and demographic change speaks for all the BOCS.

    People on anti are not consumed by immigration issues. Perhaps AWCheney or Greg will post a thread on Professor G. I feel he has gotten more attention on anti than he deserves.

  12. ShellyB

    I still am hung up on my question for AWC, which has not been answered by anyone except Posting as Pinko (thank you). But I would like to hear from someone who is IN the fog of propaganda, and actively embracing it, as opposed to someone who is likely to be critical of such a person (Pinko that includes you). Why assign scary but utterly impossible stories like Atzlan to “the Hispanic issue?” And what the heck IS “the Hispanic issue?” If not AWC, maybe Robb Pearson could explain this. Why seek out and internalize false stories that make you angry and afraid?

  13. Moon-howler, 19. October 2008, 11:26
    “Yes, Professor G is ugly talking, to stick with the theme of this thread. He does not speak for the entire hispanic community. I would venture to say many have never heard of him.”

    Exactly Moon-howler…which is why I said that I believe you get it. I never suggested that he spoke for the entire Hispanic community. My point was that there is fear-mongering on both sides but, always with an agenda. It happens that I believe in facts. Interpret them as you will, through whatever perception filter that you may care to, but I strongly believe in people trying to get the FACTS. Not like Mackie, who came up with that genocide in PWC nonsense, but doesn’t believe that HE is a fear-monger…just everybody who doesn’t agree with him who comes up with a fact that might be a bit uncomfortable.

    Insofar as you are concerned, Shelly, you said yourself that Posting as Pinko answered your question and I said I agreed with her (perhaps not exactly her interpretation…it happens that I actually grew up in the 50’s and 60’s). That YOU believe I am in a fog of propaganda is your right and suggests the fact that you know nothing of me, which is fine. I’ve never been PC in my entire life…less so the older I get. I have nothing to prove to anybody and I never played “follow the leader.”

  14. AWZaney,

    Not like Mackie, who came up with that genocide in PWC nonsense, but doesn’t believe that HE is a fear-monger…just everybody who doesn’t agree with him who comes up with a fact that might be a bit uncomfortable.

    Haha. Once again, your ‘facts’ contradict reality. There is an ethnic cleansing that is taking place in PWC. Here is the definition according to merriam-webster:

    the expulsion, imprisonment, or killing of an ethnic minority by a dominant majority in order to achieve ethnic homogeneity

    Well…we certainly have expulsion…and in many cases we have imprisonment…and in a few cases we’ve had (‘get a mexican’) killings.

    Gee, I suppose merriam-webster must be wrong if AWZaney says so.

  15. “No peace prize for Sr. G.”

    LOL! NO! That was MY error when I confused Gutierrez with Bustamante!!! Let’s squash the myth right now! Hee hee!

    Gutuierrez is an extremist. La Raza explained themselves and unless you see them burning a white effigy on your front lawn (or telling people to buy guns to threaten you as is done on BVBL), there’s no reason not to believe their statements.

  16. Mackie, ethnic cleansing can also be defined as forced emigration, which we have.

  17. Moon-howler

    I am going to make the suggestion that when we are speaking directly to people, let’s call them by their actual names or monikers or initials. It’s the civilized and polite thing to do.

  18. NotGregLetiecq

    How on earth are we going to break the pattern we keep falling into: M-H posts something where someone does something wrong, and then someone else responds with a scenario where an ethnic person does something similarly wrong.

    What exactly is the point of that?

  19. Moon-howler

    NGL, There does seem to be a pattern doesn’t there?

  20. Fontbonne

    MoonHowler, I found something very interesting which might serve as a counterpoint to the video above and in the bargain will make you proud of PWC.

    Will you consider posting it?

  21. Moon-howler

    Sure. is it a video? post it here or I can give you my email address.

  22. Fontbonne

    Thank you. I sincerely appreciate your openness.

    http://americannewsproject.com/videos/158

    “At a John McCain rally in Woodbridge, Virginia, three people handed out “Obama for Change” bumper stickers with the Communist sickle and hammer and the Islamic crescent, saying Obama was a socialist with ties to radical Islam. Several moderate McCain supporters, Muslim and Christian alike, struck back – relentlessly bombarding the group distributing the flyers until they left the premises.”

  23. Chris

    Fontbonne,
    Amazing, and not in a good way I might add. Those individuals weren’t doing anything to help their candidates campaign. They were clearly doing it a grave disservice. Why people what to waste such time and energy on stirring up sh!t is beyond me.

  24. Chris

    Fontbonne,
    Moon-howler is all over this video and working on it now. I can’t wait to see what everyone has to say about that video.

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