The DC Examiner investigated the results of the 287(g) program at the PWC/Manassas ADC in an article entitled “Number of Prince William illegals turned over to ICE holds steady.” It seems like the article was just missing a few bits and nuances of the history of this program in Prince William County.

Basically, since November, 2007 the number of illegal immigrants turned over to ICE has held steady at around 80 per month. The ADC has gotten more efficient handling the 287(g) processing since it first began according to jail superintendent Pete Meletis.

What the article failed to mention is that the 287(g) program was never part of the July 10, 2007 Immigration Resolution. It also failed to investigate how many illegal immigrants are actually deported. Once they leave the ADC, there is no real accountability of what becomes of them.

Superintendent Meletis did say in a presentation to the BOCS that 5% had been rearrested here in the county. If 5% have been re-arrested then we can count on more than that being out in the general population. This seems to be the fault of ICE or a federal judge, not our folks here in Prince William County.

We have paid a great deal of money to have the 287(g) program and hopefully the feds will give us a little better service for our efforts. Jail Superintendent Pete Meletis runs a tight ship and is deserving of our support.

For those out there who are erroneously saying that we here at Anti blog do not support the 287(g) program, you are simply dead wrong. On the other hand, those I have heard comments from are not known for their accuracy or devotion to speaking the truth.

35 thoughts on “DC Examiner Leaves a Few Stones Unturned

  1. NotGregLeteicq

    Right now the only commenter on the DC Examiner claims to be one Robert L. Duecaster. He says that the original Immigration Resolution, as co-authored by Mr. Duecaster and an anti-immigrant lobbying firm classified as a Hate Group (FAIR), was written to require “police officers to check the legal residency of everyone they encountered.”

    I sense a rift here between Mr. Duecaster and Gospel Greg.

    The only difference between the Duecaster/Hate Group immigration checks and the ones we have now is that they are checking people AFTER they are arrested. We are, as Mr. Duecaster prefers, checking everyone regardless of skin color. But we are checking them only after they are incarcerated. That means they did something wrong, probably. And why not check out what their previous record is?

    The leaders of this blog advocated heavily both on the internet and in person for this change. Gospel Greg and his dwindling followers were against this change.

    With this change, we basically are back to the same 287(g) our Board had agreed to BEFORE the costly Immigration Resolution sidetracked our government and destroyed our reputation, economy, housing market, and tax base.

    So why do Gospel Greg and his 3 remaining followers try to claim that Alanna, Elena, and M-H are against 287(g)?

    If they are in Duecaster’s camp, they should be angry that the police aren’t forming blockades and checking papers of everyone trying to get to and form work every day of the week.

    If they are truly Greg followers, they must know that Alanna, Elena, and M-H all support 287(g), and advocated to change the Immigration Resolution so it conformed to 287(g). I know this because the Greg followers were on the other blog advocating AGAINST THIS CHANGE!

    Duh!

    That newspaper article is about 287(g). Do they think people are too dumb to know the difference between 287(g) and the Oct. 16th version of Immigration Resolution (mandating police officers to ask for papers proving legal status of people who look or sound like they are probably illegal)?

    If we had the Oct. 16th Immigration Resolution we’d be up to our eyeballs in racial profiling law suits, that’s why it was changed on April 29.

    I’m left to believe that the only reason Gospel Greg pretends the disagreement is over 287(g) is that he knows that public opinion has long since turned against the Immigration Resolution. He knows he’s lost when it comes to people who know what is what, so his only target audience is people who don’t know anything about the subject, and are dumb enough to take Greg’s word for it.

  2. NotGregLeteicq

    M-H, thanks for setting the record straight. If I’m not mistaken, it was Chief Deane who recommended that we enroll the county in 287(g). This is the same guy that Greg Letiecq, Corey Stewart and their 3 remaining followers accused of treason not long ago, just because he wanted to block their path to rampant racial profiling.

    It is really typical of them to now claim that they are the champions of 287(g), try to divorce themselves from the disastrous economic impact of the Immigration Resolution. And, (just for laughs) they accuse you, Alanna and Elena of NOT supporting 287(g)! AntiBVBL led the charge to beat back the very same loons who were accusing Chief Deane of treason.

    And yeah the fact that 5 percent of the people we turn over to ICE end up back in our legal system, that just takes the cake. Easily 10 times that number were probably released, with most of them settling in other parts of the country, and most of the ones who DO return to PWC keeping their noses clean.

    So let’s just say that 40 of the 80 people per month are simply let go by ICE.

    I don’t care to do the math at this hour, but on a cost per person basis, I’d say PWC taxpayers have shelled a heck of a lot of money to start this merry-go-round.

    And, doesn’t the state of Virginia now do the same thing we do: check the legal status of people who are arrested? We paid 14 million for a ruined economy, a bankrupt government, a ruined housing market, and plummeting property values.

    Thanks Corey Stewart.

  3. Marie

    There was never a need for either the City of Manassas or the Prince William County to enact a 287(g) program. There was a program in place at the jail where it belongs. Our police officers should be able to do the police work they were trained to do. They should not be ICE Agents. In the course of doing good police work criminals are arrested. Upon arrest they are taken to the jail where status is checked. That is all that was ever needed.

  4. For those out there who are erroneously saying that we here at Anti blog do not support the 287(g) program, you are simply dead wrong. On the other hand, those I have heard comments from are not known for their accuracy or devotion to speaking the truth.

    Denial usually makes a problem worse.

    You don’t have to throw the 287(g) bone to the nativists. It’s no different than the Jim Crow poll taxes, grandfather clauses, and the farce called the war on drugs. In fact, since the immigrant communities will be the ones most impacted, perhaps we should ask them if they want to support it or abolish it. Since the 287(g) program really won’t effect white people, why are they getting involved?

  5. NotGregLeteicq

    Marie, aren’t you talking about the Virginia state program that didn’t get instituted until 2008? PWC approved 287(g) in late 2006, prior to the Immigration Resolution surprise attack in June of 2007. And then came the statewide law in 2008. Am I correct?

    Mackie and Marie, I hear you when you say that 287(g) wasn’t needed or unfairly impacts minority communities. That may well be. But what I am reacting to is a systematic effort of the Gospel Greg contingent to confuse the Immigration Resolution with 287(g), being that the Immigration Resolution is widely seen as a catastrophe and 287(g) is a great deal less controversial.

    I am perhaps too trusting of authority figures like Chief Deane. But if he said that 287(g) was okay, then that was good enough for me. Now that the anti-immigrant hysteria has died down, perhaps I should reexamine this. Perhaps the entire government should. But at the time, it seemed like a compromise that might have avoided the needless and pointless economic bloodletting that resulted from the Immigration Resolution.

    If the introduction of 287(g) had avoided the economic catastrophe and the rampant racial hatred that consumed this community a mere six months after 287(g) was approved, then I would have said 287(g) was a good compromise.

    As it is, we got both. But as Elena, M-H, and Alanna will say, it makes sense in principle to check the status of people who are already in jail. If it is redundant and wasteful spending, that is another matter.

  6. Marie

    I am not talking about the VA 287(g) program. I was referring to the program that was approved for the PW Co jail in either late 2005 or 2006.

    I believe that neither Chief Deane nor Chief Skinner were in favor of the localities implementing a 287(g) program within the police departments. I believe that both spoke out against the measure, indicating it would diminish cooperation with law enforcement by the latino community and that it would strain thinly stretched resources. Prince William police Chief Charlie T. Deane told the supervisors that the resolution would have “significant, unintended consequence which will impact our county for years to come.” He further stated there could be some serious unintended consequences which included a variety of issues.

    Since the jail was already checking the status of people arrested and already in the jail, it made no sense to me to have PW and Manassas City police become ICE officers.

  7. Considering that it’s people of color who will face the abuses brought about by 287(g), I think it’s only fair that their opinion carry the day on that issue as opposed to white people who rarely know what they’re talking about when they address racism. Shouldn’t they exercise some humility and gracefully stand aside to allow people of color to take the lead on this issue?

    After all, can’t people of color be trusted to make the right decision? Can’t they be expected to have the requisite level of morality to strike a just balance between immigration enforcement and their human rights?

  8. ShellyB

    I’m getting confused here. I thought Chief Deane’s warning on July 10th 2007 was in regard to the Immigration Resolution, not 287g.

  9. There’s a show currently on the History Channel about the German Army’s complicity in war crimes in WW2. It’s riveting to witness how supposedly nonpolitical professional soldiers can come to rationalize what they did despite the voices within their ranks who argued against it.

  10. Juturna

    Mr. Stewart would have arrested his own mother-in-law if it meant he would have the opportunity for a sound bite. That was the entire purpose of the resolution.

    Of course, the resolution had a secong purpose besides propelling Stewart into the limelight. It was to support the xenophobe from Gaineville and the one hiding in the basement in Westgate/Sudley. By the way, he sure has been MIA lately. Maybe this supports the rumor that he just didn’t have enough to do everday – heard someone finally hired him.

  11. Chris

    Mackie,
    Everyone’s immigration status is being checked post arrest at the ADC or at the Magistrate’s Office. Now, that being said it does effect white people too. People of all colors are arrested and hauled off jail on daily basis. The bottom line is for EVERYONE to keep their noses clean and not get arrested, and then there’s no worries. BFD! How hard is that? I do also, believe we all want to live in a safe community and the 287(g) program helps keep the illegal aliens from falling through the cracks that have committed crimes. We do not want criminals of any kind in our community, but we all know we don’t live in a perfect world.

  12. Moon-howler

    The police chiefs were not in favor of their departments taking over as ICE agents. They felt it was bad law enforcement. As I recall, both have been supportive of the 287(g) program that the adult detention center. It is also less costly for the program to be implemented there.

    What you are talking about was part of Immigration Resolution.

  13. Juturna

    It was an additional responsibility that was already being conducted at the jail. The same folks that approve of this are also the first to comment on duplication of services. Or, how about we ‘out source’ this function. That would save the County money. Hmmmmm……. how about we out source immigration laws to the feds??

    What Ducaster and Stirrup and the gremlin wanted was (as someone stated) roadblocks with checks. Also, I don’t think they minded one bit scaring the hell out of some vulnerable people – goes to motive.

  14. Juturna

    Maybe this venomous vechicle (the Immigration Resolution) is finally dying a slow death…….

  15. Chris

    Sounds like a new night time drama, Juturna. It could be called Snake Rider(s)!

  16. Moon-howler

    I think that was the entire point…..to scare. [deep voice] you had better be out of town by sundown, boy. I keep asking over and over, what is the Immigration Resolution doing for us now. No one has answered me and I have been asking for 6 months.

    It doesn’t do jack. Yes, it was neutered. No one cares because it scared people into leaving. I just wish those who made it happen would man up and admit it.

  17. Alanna

    I am actually starting to believe that there could be a silver lining in this cloud. What has happened here in Prince William County is a microcosm of what could happen in other jurisdictions, if they attempt to enact something similar. All they have to do is look at our housing market and that should give any locality pause. I believe the 9500 Documentary will go a long way in discouraging other jurisdictions from venturing down the same path.

    Again, I don’t have any issue with identifying criminals and deporting them after they serve their sentences. I always had a problem with inquiring about status because of a noise violation, or because someone was walking by a stolen car. In my mind, that is barely a step away from a police state which was a scary prospect. What we have now appears to be a compromise of sorts.

    I do have a suspicion that these people that are being picked up on misdemeanor charges are part of a revolving door process where they are brought to Fairfax, processed and released. I’d prefer instead if they focus was on the worst of the worst across the nation.

    Can anyone answer if there’s any cost associated with checking status at the time of arrest versus at the jail?

    I do believe many of these undocumented people have been welcomed into our society. We allowed them to purchase homes etc…. Many entered the country prior to 9/11 where we had a policy of allowing them to adjust their status after arrival. We had job growth that exceeded our immigration allowances for entry into the country. Their labor in my opinion is what fueled our recent construction boom. So, I am in favor of allowing those who meet certain criteria to stay. This isn’t the ideal way of handling immigration, although it seems to be the way in which the country has conducted its policy for the past quarter century and I don’t see it as being the immigrants fault.

  18. NotGregLeteicq

    I return to my earlier statement that Gospel Greg and Corey Stewart would like for us to confuse 287(g) with the Immigration Resolution.

    I’m not sure what this gains them. I guess it would be like conflating the invasion of Iraq with the “war on terrah.” No one opposes going after Bin Laden and Al Quada. But 80 percent of the country things it was either a sinister lie or an idiotic mistake to invade and occupy Iraq.

    Now that the other shoe has dropped, and public opinion has turned, it’s in Bush/Cheney’s interest to conflate the two.

    I think that’s what’s going on here. It looks to me like Corey Stewart completely snowed the DC Examiner writer. Poor sap.

  19. Juturna

    Alanna

    There was a presentation to the BOCS in early September that provided the costs incurred in the jail. I think there is a county website with all Immigration stuff or maybe on on the Police Chief’s site.

  20. Marie

    Shelly B
    What I said was “I believe that neither Chief Deane nor Chief Skinner were in favor of the localities implementing a 287(g) program within the police departments.” The Chief’s were not in favor of have their departments functioning as ICE officers. Both favored the 287(g) in the jail.

  21. Marie

    NotGregLeteicq, 7. December 2008, 19:56
    I return to my earlier statement that Gospel Greg and Corey Stewart would like for us to confuse 287(g) with the Immigration Resolution.

    NGL-I would have to agree with that statment.

  22. Juturna

    Right, it was a duplication of services and much more expensive way to do this. Those of us that have followed this from day one are not only sick at the cost of doing this but sick over the way it was done for for what reasons. Personal gain and xenophobia…… I do not support illegal immigration – I do support a humane approach.

  23. Chris

    How about the costs of those FOIA’s during the “great debate”? Now, that was hefty bill we the taxpayers had to foot the bill for. All FOIA’s should be subject to the 50 cents per page copy that the courts in Virginia charge people for copies. We need money. This would be a great to recover some of the costs if it’s allowable by law of course.

  24. Juturna

    From what I hear, the FOIA’s continue. Typically, the early ones are the local wannabes, you know those that THINK they know what they are talking about. The impact of this thing is LONG from over….I am referring to the big guns not the local yokels.

  25. ShellyB

    Marie, thanks I think I understand now. There is 287g in the jail and 287g in the field. In the jail is not controversial but in the streets was opposed by both police chiefs.

  26. Moon-howler

    There was definite confusion and it was intentional. It is pretty hard to have an opinion about something that you don’t understand.

    Apparently there are some people who just think that the FOIAs fall out of the sky. It might be interesting to follow a FOIA request from start to finish. Start off as someone with too much time on their hands who wants to stick their nose into something. Follow the request. How many people are involved? What is not getting done while 2-3-4 people in a department are preparing materials for the request. Copying is a drop in the bucket when all is said and done. From what I understand, all FOIA requests go through the county attorney’s office. How many salaries are we tapping now?

    FOIA requests cost the county thousands of dollars. I don’t think some of the biggest requestors realized that.

  27. Elena

    Hmm Juturna,
    You have me intrigued, what type of “big guns” and what is their purpose?

  28. ShellyB

    Or, they may have realized how costly it was to our county government, but they thought it was more important to mine for bogus reasons to attack Chief Deane and anyone else who dared to try to protect the county’s long term interests.

  29. Juturna

    Well, any big lawsuit for profiling, economic loss, civil rights wasn’t going to happen immediately. It would take time. Hopefully, it won’t. I just meant, enough time has not passed to be sure we are out of the woods on this.

  30. ShellyB

    Correct Juturna, but if they hadn’t eliminated the manditory checks based on probable cause earlier this year, the law suits would have come for certain. This way we have a much better chance of not going bankrupt with lawsuits up the wazoo.

  31. NotGregLeteicq

    One of the qualifiers for Greg Hag status is being willing to hassle the Prince William County government with Freedom of Information Requests. But there is a certain Greg Hag who has taken Greg’s directive a bit too far, to the point of tens of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money going down the drain.

    And what did we the taxpayers get in return for all of this money down the drain?

    Well, we did get one thing. We got to find out beyond any doubt that Gospel Greg and the Greg Hags have been reduced to small club festering with resentment and obsessive-compulsive disorders. Their ridiculous attacks on Chief Deane and the county government were more fitting of middle school name calling than a responsible anti-immigrant lobbying organization. At that point, the BOCS and the county staff lost all respect for them. And their opinion of Help Save Manassas has gone down hill from there.

  32. JustinT

    I don’t understand the title of this thread. Can anyone explain it to me?

    Anyway, I agree. 287(g) is fine in the jails. Out in the streets, forcing police to check people’s immigration papers instead of keeping us safe is a waste of taxpayer money and a magnet for lawsuits and disdain from moderate thinkers around the country.

    I also agree that the FOIA’s have been abusive and a waste of taxpayer money.

  33. How about the costs of those FOIA’s during the “great debate”? Now, that was hefty bill we the taxpayers had to foot the bill for. All FOIA’s should be subject to the 50 cents per page copy that the courts in Virginia charge people for copies. We need money. This would be a great to recover some of the costs if it’s allowable by law of course.

    Apparently there are some people who just think that the FOIAs fall out of the sky. It might be interesting to follow a FOIA request from start to finish. Start off as someone with too much time on their hands who wants to stick their nose into something. Follow the request. How many people are involved? What is not getting done while 2-3-4 people in a department are preparing materials for the request. Copying is a drop in the bucket when all is said and done. From what I understand, all FOIA requests go through the county attorney’s office. How many salaries are we tapping now?

    FOIA requests cost the county thousands of dollars. I don’t think some of the biggest requestors realized that.

    I also agree that the FOIA’s have been abusive and a waste of taxpayer money.

    FOIA’s are hands down, far and above, the most useful product that our government can provide. I understand the natural desire to save money but not a single penny is wasted when FIOA’s are requested. Ever.

    The government hates FOIA. It would be a mistake to allow them to start charging us for a FOIA request. Our legal system is already badly skewed in favor of the rich. What would poor people do who were trying to protect themselves from abuse from someone like the Stewart and Stirrup?

  34. Cat Scratch Fever

    Mackie,
    Ok, FOIA’s serve a purpose, but with many man hours of time, and often pages and pages of copies needing to be made. I do think they are waste of money and there are those that FOIA like there’s no tomorrow. I do think this is abused by several in our county. I’m sure you will disagree.

    Are you the local “FOIA King”? We already have a “FOIA Queen”.

  35. Moon-howler

    Justin,

    The DC Examiner had an article on the 287g program that left out quite a bit of history and was only semi accurate.

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