Much discussion has come up the past few days around the blogosphere about hate crimes. Our blog, Antibvbl.net has come under some undeserved fire over not commenting on the sentencing of Latino rapists in recent weeks. Some apples and oranges comparisons have been made which are just plain silly in my opinion.

First of all we saw no point in commenting on the heinous act of child rape. This is a burn-in-hell offense, in our opinion, regardless of who does it. The reader comment section and BVBL.net both covered this event from their own perspectives. What more was there to add? We oppose child rapists regardless of ethnicity. Furthermore, we want anyone found guilty of this hideous act to be punished to the full extent of the law. If the perpetrator is an illegal immigrant, then we want them deported to their country of origin after serving their sentence.

We will not report each and every crime committed but will comment if we feel something needs to be highlighted. Readers may continue to email us with suggested articles.

Moving right along, to hate crimes, I went straight to the F.B.I. website for this one.

Definition
A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin.

The key here is motivation. Was the man attacked because he was gay or was a man attacked who coincidentally happened to be gay? Those are the questions that law enforcement asks each time a suspicious crime is committed. Some are very clear cut like painting swastikas all over a Jewish temple. Others are more complicated and must be proven both as a charge and for a verdict. Some cases remain forever in those gray areas.

Certainly every crime against Hispanics is not a hate crime or racially motivated. Yet sometimes they are. In the past year we had some good old Prince William boys going around trying to ‘rob a Mexican.’ This is a hate crime. The motivation is to rob Mexicans. Not to rob someone just get money.

A harder case to prove would be someone robbing a senior citizen. Is the senior robbed because seniors are hated or because a senior citizen is seen as less likely to put up strong resistance? Would a perp attempt to rob the fullback on the football team or some little old lady?

Here is a chart showing the various categories of hate crimes in 2004. Hopefully this information will keep debate between what is a hate crime and what is not to a minimum. Hate crimes, if proven to be that, carry stiffer penalties

32 thoughts on “Crime, Punishment, and Hate Crimes

  1. Rat's Ass Ralph

    People tend to say anytime a minority has something happen to them, it is a hate crime. This mentality gets real old. Then there are those who say there is no such thing as a hate crime. Is there any balance here?

  2. ShellyB

    It doesn’t take balance to understand what is happening in this country right now. It just takes a little common sense, and an awareness of human history.

    Who are the two minorities being vilified by politicians and pundits on TV and radio? Who are the two minorities whose rights as Americans and as human beings are always in a tug-of-war during election time? And, statistically, who do we see being violently attacked and murdered by people who have let the hate go too far?

    Think about it. Those two men would not have been attacked if they were not Hispanic, and if they were not mistaken for gay men. I’m sure the perpetrators will explain that as soon as they are caught. That’s a problem. And given the ugly history of what happens when governments condone, fail to act, or participate in targeting minorities, I for one am glad that we have Hate Crimes Legislation in the works.

  3. JustinT

    M-H, don’t even respond to the idiots in their echo chamber. Believe me, you are a lot more aware of Greg Letiecq and his followers than the average citizen. And there is not a soul in county government that pays any mind to Letiecq’s opinions, other than his puppets Stewart and Stirrup. If you hadn’t mentioned Leteicq was whining about you not joining in their hate mongering, we wouldn’t have even known about it.

  4. JustinT

    As for the issue at hand, I agree heinous crimes are heinous crimes no matter the ethnicity of the victim or the assailant. The protections of hate crime legislation are unfortunately necessary in a political environment such as what we have today.

  5. Rick Bentley

    “We oppose child rapists regardless of ethnicity. Furthermore, we want anyone found guilty of this hideous act to be punished to the full extent of the law. If the perpetrator is an illegal immigrant, then we want them deported to their country of origin after serving their sentence.”

    Okay. Great. Now …

    How do you intend to have any idea which of the illegal aliens around us, who have been smuggled across our borders by drug smugglers, have exhibited such tendancies in the past or have charges pending against them either here or in their country of origin?

    We track American citizens as sex offenders. We created a system to alert us to their likely presence, based on knowledge of their true identity and knowledge of past relevant actions. We track legal residents as well. I wonder how many offenders were let in from the 1986 Amnesty … But illegal aliens, we don’t and can’t track. What’s your solution. Sacrifice a few children for the sake of cheaper lettuce?

  6. JustinT

    Rick. No matter how certain you think you are that people of a certain ethnicity are more likely to commit crimes, you can’t racially profile.

    We’ve tried that in the past and it didn’t work very well.

    In our military tribunal kangaroo courts set up by the Bush administration, they don’t even have to prove a guy is guilty of anything! As long as he is Muslim, and they think he might commit an act of terror in the future, they can hold him without due process.

    We were going that direction until the election. Now we’re not.

    So I don’t see racially profiling Hispanics as the answer, Rick.

  7. NotGregLeteicq

    JT, you are making a big assumption here that it’s actually TRUE that undocumented immigrants commit more crimes than the average citizen. It is absolutely not true. Statistics show the opposite, and it’s common sense. If you knew you could be jailed and deported for a even the smallest misdemeanor, would be more careful or less careful?

    And if you need any more proof, look at our own numbers here in PWC. Undocumented immigrants commit 1.6% of the crime here. That’s far below the estimates of the undocumented population (10% perhaps, but if it really is 1.6% then why destroy your own government over a problem of perception?)

    So even if racially profiling were still on the books in PWC, we’d have LESS effective law enforcement, our people would be LESS safe, and we’d still have the mountain of million dollar law suits we avoided by changing the law last April.

  8. Moon-howler

    Rick let’s start with the premise that I don’t want any child molesters loose and out in society. In fact, I would be all for the death penalty for child molesting.

    Since that cannot be, I believe that any illegal immigrant child molester should be tried and jailed. When he has served his time, deport the POS and alert the country of return that he is a child molester.

    Why would anyone have a problem with that?

    How do you know which Americans have those kinds of quirks? You don’t. YOu don’t get on the registry for having a look in your eye. You only get there after a conviction.

  9. Rick Bentley

    “You only get there after a conviction.”

    Right. And with our laws, the type of human trash that would rape a 1-year old at a party would likely get flagged for some lesser sex offense before he ended up wandering around molesting babies. Or the kind of guy who would break in and rape a 10-year old.

  10. Moon-howler

    Do you seriously think that just immigrants do this sort of thing? Wrong.

    Unfortunately, Prince William has a few child molesters in its day. As I said before, they deserve their own special Hell.

    Rick, you cannot put a person on a sex offenders list just on an accusation. That does away with the entire ‘innocent until proven guilty’ concept. You know, the Bill of Rights and all that.

  11. Rick Bentley

    is logical arguement dead? I said nothing about that anyone being put on a list from an unfounded accusation.

    If you don’t understand the fact that :

    not knowing a person’s real identity

    undercuts efforts to :

    track sex offenders, drunk drivers, etc.

    then what can I say.

  12. You Wish

    Rick is right – if someone who is here illegally and CANNOT be documented (giving a false SSN, no known address, etc) – how can we track them? Rick didn’t say anything about going on accusations – reread his response. He said:

    “How do you intend to have any idea which of the illegal aliens around us, who have been smuggled across our borders by drug smugglers, have exhibited such tendancies in the past or have charges pending against them either here or in their country of origin”

    Notice that he didn’t say anything about unfounded accusations, he said that if we cannot track them, we cannot identify them as re-offenders.

    As a parent of 2 young girls, I check the registered sex offenders who live around schools, our neighborhood, my parents neighborhood, and their daycare. If someone is here illegally and there is no way to “track” them, I’m outraged as a parent.

    You all really need to read someone’s response before jumping all over them. I’ve reread Rick’s comments three times and he has said nothing that only immigrants commit these crimes. What he is saying is that if we cannot document people (immigrant, citizen, outerspace alien, whoever) that have committed sexual crimes, we cannot keep our families safe. Period.

  13. NotGregLeteicq

    Excellent! So we’re in agreement. If the new Homeland Security administration and the new Congress and the new President read this blog, hopefully they’ll understand that it is imperative that we mandate all undocumented immigrants in the United States register with the government for legal status and proper identification.

    Finally some common sense solutions from people from all sides of the spectrum. Thanks everyone.

  14. NotGregLeteicq

    I said the above in response to Rick Bentley’s salient point:

    not knowing a person’s real identity

    undercuts efforts to :

    track sex offenders, drunk drivers, etc.

    then what can I say.

  15. NotGregLeteicq

    Rick, if you could be more specific that you would deplore anyone being suspected of child rape based on skin color, heritage, nation of origin, or documentation status, I think we’ll have a real breakthrough here.

    You said above “I said nothing about that anyone being put on a list from an unfounded accusation.” I interpret this to mean that any sort of profiling is unfounded, but to solidify the accord we have reached, it would be great if you could affirm this.

    Thanks!

  16. Moon-howler

    Rick, if a person is a sex offender, then lets assume they are in jail where they belong. If they have served their time, lets hope that they are registered or deported if not here legally.

    I have a concern about people in our communities who we do not know, whether they are drifters, illegal immigrants, or just plain old perverts.

    you wish, It probably would be smart of you not to lecture me. Rick and I have probably been bantering a lot longer than you think.

  17. Rick Bentley

    “Rick, if you could be more specific that you would deplore anyone being suspected of child rape based on skin color, heritage, nation of origin, or documentation status, I think we’ll have a real breakthrough here. ”

    I’m not going to give you a breakthrough here, because “deplore” is too strong a term for how I feel about a “suspicion”. Using terms like that I feel that you’re as concerned with whether one person has any racial animus (even though – we all do on some level or another) as you are whether another molests children.

    Racial profiling … is a tool. It’s neither wrong nor right. The pretense that it was “bad” was dropped post 9-11, when Americans of most creeds and colors agreed that yes we need to check someone more carefully and keep an eye on their activities if they are Middle Eastern or radical Muslim. I’m sure that offends you but so be it. Tolerance and freedom are wonderful but “suspicion” need hardly be “deplored”.

  18. Rick Bentley

    “As a parent of 2 young girls, I check the registered sex offenders who live around schools, our neighborhood, my parents neighborhood, and their daycare. If someone is here illegally and there is no way to “track” them, I’m outraged as a parent. ”

    I honestly feel and have felt that way too. And some real grotesque things have happened here in the last few years, that would not have happened without the illegal immigrant community coming here.

  19. Moon-howler

    Rick,

    Can we agree that some folks slip through the cracks. How does a non illegal immigrant person get spotted any easier than someone else. I actually don’t see what you are talking about.

    I agree that in neighborhoods where people come and go, the likelihood of getting a bad apple in is greater than in an older more stable neighborhood. Other than that, I don’t know how we recognize child molesters.

    I don’t believe anyone gets a long enough prison sentence. From literally everything I have read, the condition just doesn’t go away, regardless of what is done. I think all ought to be chemically castrated.

  20. No matter what you do children will continue to be molested. You cannot stop eliminate crime. A sex offender database makes worried parents feel better but I don’t think it’s actually effective. It’s an emotional response to a very emotional issue.

    It’s also how the govt begins the process of taking away our freedom. They identify a ‘boogie man’ and then provide a ‘solution’ that increases their power over you and, somewhere down the road, this ‘solution’ comes to be used against you.

    For example, they can put you on the terrorist watch list, for any reason at all. Just because your name is similar to someone else’s on the list. They’ve definitely used it against political opponents…like Nazi Germany.

    But has it captured even 1 terrorist?

  21. Alanna

    Rick,
    You have some people who might suggest giving ids to them just for the purpose of tracking. I bet back in the day when driver’s licenses were issued to them it probably assisted law enforcement in tracking individuals down. Nowadays, surely there’s very little to go on.

  22. Rick Bentley

    “I think all ought to be chemically castrated.”

    We agree on that.

  23. Moon-howler

    Mackie, I just dont think convicted sex offenders have rights other than human rights and even the human rights is a stretch for me. If they are child sex offenders then take away the human rights.

    I dont mean 19 year olds who inadvertently go out with 17 year olds and the parents to nuts and claim statutory rape. I mean adult bodies messing with children. These creeps are boogie men and deserve to be treated as such.

    Notice I am describing behaviors, not any thing else.

  24. Moon-howler

    Back to hate crimes–I find it strange that more people are victims of hate crimes because of religion than ethnicty or sexual orientation, according to the FBI chart. The differences aren’t staggering, but religion does come out on top of the other 2 areas. Clearly over 50% of the hate crimes are racially motivated.

    Now, is it because it is easier to determine someone’s race than their religion? Can people hide ethnitity more than race or sexual orientation.

    Judging from what I have read over on insidenova.com, it seems that most of the religious fighting is from within its own ranks, rather than from outsiders. Now there’s something to think about.

  25. NotGregLeteicq

    Rick,

    I’m a little disappointed in your saying that racial profiling is a valid tool.

    It is true that in the wake of 9/11 our civil liberties were set aside for seven years or so. But that period is ending, and I’m glad.

    I think most law enforcement leaders will tell you that it is easier to keep communities safe WITH OUT racial profiling.

    I think that our intelligence and national security leaders will tell you the same.

    The fact that the Bush administration fired anyone who pointed this out to them does not mean that they were right.

    The fact that they hired a fascist to write legal opinions for the Justice Department does not mean that they were right.

  26. M-H,

    I’m not arguing for the human rights of sex offenders.
    I’m arguing in defense of my rights.

    In general, I think we tend to make too much of sex related issues in this country. As if sex itself is something to inherently be ashamed of. Spitzer has sex with a 23 year old model, and pays her for it, and somehow that’s news? But if he had had sex with a 23 year old intern and compensated her with a well paying job would anyone have noticed? And we know that kind of thing happens all the time…

    Bill Clinton sired God knows how many children out of wedlock. He left his ‘mark’ all over the oval office, and then he lied through his teeth about it to the whole country. Now he’s a hero of the left.

    I say this because there are many ways to be wounded in life that have nothing to do with sex and where the perpetrator has not broken any ‘law’. And the victims carry these wounds around for life. We all have our crosses to bear. And there are many ‘crimes’ that can be committed against you that are not defined as ‘crimes’ under the law. Where is the database to protect me from those ‘criminals’?

  27. Moon-howler

    Mackie, I guess I would have to know what wounds we are talking about. I would guess most of us have them. I guess what doesn’t kill you, strengthens you. I do not say that to be glib.

    As for the sex crimes, the only ones I care about are ones that hurt other people. yes, I do care if some unqualified person screws their way their way up the corporate ladder while highly qualified people are passed over. I also care if people are forced into sex acts, whether they are men or women or children. I am totally unforgiving about this kind of crap happening to children. People who are victims of sexual predators rarely recover completely.

    As for girls who flirt and strut around their young male teachers, I am not too harsh on that one. The male teachers are violating a professional trust and should be forever removed from being in a job where that kind of trust is assumed. They should never be allowed in a classroom. However, I don’t necessarily think they are sexual predators, just incredibly stupid. Females can be predators also. Monica Lewinsky was a sexual predator also.

  28. Moon-howler

    Mackie, I have a very bad cop story that affected my family. I certainly do not blame all cops. I think most are good people.

  29. Rick Bentley

    “Spitzer has sex with a 23 year old model, and pays her for it, and somehow that’s news?”

    Because he was so aggressively prosecuting others for the same crime.

  30. Moon-howler

    And Larry Craig was out attempting to enact laws against gays. And the other dude who ended up on the madam’s list was actively trying to enact laws denying birth control to teenage girls. So….if they are going to be Dudley Do-rights, they had better make sure they are walking the straight and narrow.

  31. Rachel

    This is for rick bentley: i think your comments have been interesting. Sounds like u live in florida. Just a hunch. Curious to know if im right. Anyhow have enjoyed your comments. As to if you are a long lost acquaitance from the prospect oh. Area? Ironic if you are. Interesting on your strong views of child molestation if you are the rick i know. And if you are would like to debate the topic with you. I bet you have tendencies that extend from your past. Hopefully you have overcome them. But no matter what any male out there wants 2 believe that girls that wear bikinis shouldnt get upset if there looked at in a sexual nature is offensive. Children do not know 2 the extent ideology of sick minded men that are pedophiles. No excuse 4 an adult 2 look n that matter of sickness at a child. Even if your sick mind believes that. this comes from a past survivor. And still suffer daily from my sick minded molester. hope 2 hear your comments. Father of 2 girls. do u want males thinkn that of your children?

  32. Rachelle

    Hello rick would like 2 hear your comment on what rachel stated. Like your name rachel sounds a bit like mine. Smiles to all of the women. .

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