41 Thoughts to “News & Messenger Cartoon Discussion”

  1. Anesthesia

    This cartoon sends a mixed message. Is the cartoonist saying the Nazis (anti-immigrant extremists) “won” because their efforts drove out illegal immigrants whom they blame for crime? Or is it saying the Nazis are Nazis and people in general are scared out of their wits because there are Nazi-like people pushing their agendas into government? Or is it saying that the Manassas police are Nazis?

    Assuming the cartoon refers to the Resolution, the obvious flaw in logic that the Nazi makes is that the PWC Resolution was passed in PWC, not Manassas. Perhaps the Nazi feels victorious for whatever reason,though why he should, I don’t know. Crime in PWC is UP.

    I would write to the cartoonist and ask what his/her message was supposed to be. It’s unclear to me.

  2. IVAN

    Perhaps the heading “only in our brave new world” might be a clue. Besides, the ten years dates back to before “The Invasion” occurred.

  3. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    Thank You, Anesthesia, for trivializing the Holocaust! You are hereby elected official spokesperson for the pro-illegal-immigration crowd!

  4. You Wish

    Sorry, it’s offensive no matter what “side” you’re on. I don’t think that Chief Deane would like being associated with Nazi’s. Actually, I don’t think ANYONE would like being associated with Nazi’s.

    Was this in a paper?

  5. Gainesville Resident

    What paper was this in so I’ll know not to waste my time reading it.

  6. You Wish

    It was in Manassas News and Messenger (at least, on line it was)

  7. ShellyB

    Can someone explain how or why Manassas crime numbers go down while PWC crime numbers have gone up?

  8. Poor Richard

    Not sure what the cartoon intended to “say” – the character and
    the accomplishment are out of synch, but it was in our local
    paper (formerly known as the MJM). Fairly positive this relates
    to Manassas City John Skinner’s recent report to the Manassas
    Council on city crime stats and not Chief Deane or PWC. Both
    Chief Deane and Chief Skinner are good and honorable police
    professionals who, among other things, have saved their governing
    bodies much grief and many dollars by standing opposed to
    the most radical anti-immigrant ideas – sometimes at the risk
    of their jobs.

  9. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    OK, I admit to not being the most observant person in the world, but could someone tell me how they get Nazi out of this guy? I don’t see a swastika on him anywhere. I see what looks like a military uniform, but otherwise no National Socialist markings. Is it an assumption? And I’ll admit, it would not be an unsafe assumption, given the uniform.

  10. Anesthesia

    Slowpoke Rodriguez, because of “Da” and the general uniform, I thought the picture was meant to show a Nazi soldier.

    If we are both this confused, then I would say that’s another reason this cartoon sent some mixed messages.

  11. Gainesville Resident

    I fail to see Nazi in the cartoon either. Then again it is a stupid cartoon as it isn’t even clear what point it is trying to make. If it is trying to ridicule Manassas for having 10 years of lowering crime statistics, that’s strange. As far as comparing one jurisdiction to another – it’s probably impossible to compare statistics – especially when the trend is only different the last couple of years. The whole cartoon is rather senseless. Whoever at the newspaper made the decision to publish it wasn’t thinking.

  12. Anesthesia

    Maybe it’s a POLICE uniform?

    But what’s the “da”?

    I have no idea what the cartoon was trying to say.

  13. Shelly, it’s very likely that crime in both Manassas and Prince William County has gone up since the bad publicity and bad policy that followed from the introduction of John Stirrup’s Immigration Resolution. Alarming statistics from the latest PWC Citizen Satisfaction Survey indicate that Hispanics and Blacks, in particular, have lost trust in the police department to administer the law fairly and justly regardless of race. This naturally has a chilling affect on the reporting of crimes, which can, at least initially, should bring crime statistics down (crime statistics of course represent only crimes that are reported).

    We should also recall that only 1.6 percent of the crime in Prince William County is committed by undocumented immigrants. So even if there has been a large exodus of undocumented people, the crime rates should have continued the downward trend they had shown in the years prior to the Immigration Resolution. For some reason, in Prince William County, that has not been the case.

    I would venture a guess that the increase here in PWC was due to (1) unreported crime which begets reported crime by encouraging criminal behavior, and (2) police officers becoming distracted and delayed with immigration paper work, immigration training, immigration re-training, and the difficulty of maintaining trust and respect in a community that in some quarters has come to see them as unfairly targeting people of certain backgrounds … overlooking the fact that they were briefly forced to do so by mandate of the Board of County Supervisors, and that such mandate has now been repealed.

    The Manassas police may have suffered from some of these negative perceptions, and they may also have battled against unreported crime and witnesses who are reluctant to come forward. But they did not have the added paper work, training hours, and distractions that hampered the PWC police department, particularly the leadership, with nearly a year’s worth of overtime (charged to the taxpayer) spent on best practices studies, additional research, additional paper work, and community outreach meetings.

    There are only so many hours in a day, and only so many officers in the field. It stands to reason that by charging our police department with an additional task that has almost nothing to do with their primary duty … which is to keep this community safe … we have precipitated a rise in crime in Prince William, compared to surrounding jurisdictions, and compared to previous years.

  14. Poor Richard

    In their own “Rorschach test” , some folks see everyone
    in authority as a Nazi. Others see every community organizer
    as a Communist.
    That is a problem.

  15. Opinion

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar – Sigmund Freud

  16. michael

    I agree with poor Richard, too many psychiactric “bloopers” committed in analyzing this cartoon.

    This is what really frustrated me about this “illegal” immigration debate, every statement is twisted and manipulated beyond its original baseline almost automatically and impulsively without any clear logic to back it up. I don’t know what professionals call it but I call it delusional assumptions and chronic misrepresentation of the truth and facts.

  17. michael

    Crime is crime… It is committed by individuals (all of you forget this bacause of your tendency to analysze everything relative to racial favorites and racial hatreds). You can’t seem to think in terms of individuals, and you screw yourself into the ceiling everytime someone brings up a fact of law or a fact of individual behavior, because you think only in terms of whether it helps or hurts racial, gender, religious, or ethnic groups. That is what is so freaking wrong with New American culture today.

    Crimne goes up because of individuals and crime goes down because of individuals. It also goes down (usually) when you increase law enforcement and put more emphasis on obeying the law.

    Their is some limited truth in the fact that certain communities are more or less lawful than others, and some countries are more ethical and lawful than others, because that is what the community reinforces in young children’s behaviors and adult behavioral acceptance, but it is also mostly correlated with level of poverty. Most crime is usually correlated to the level of poverty and level of social ethics in those communities, and rarely because of any specific racial demographics.

    It is also a fact that “illegal” immigrants generally have greater poverty than non-illegal immigrants and legal citizens, and as a result will have a greater percentage of individuals who are willing to break the law, unless their parents taught them to be afraid of the law and consequence of breaking the law. Because indiviudals are different (vastly) it is impossible to correlate any crime statistics accurately as reasonable cause and effect by a racial, gender, religious or ethnic demographic. There is a much stronger correlation (thought not consistant) with “illegal” people being more willing to break the law for a greater percentage of rules of law, simply because they have already been willing to break the law to get into the country illegally, and will continue to break laws as long as they are not caught and punished for breaking any of them. When people advocate for “lawlessness”, ignoring the law, and more lax enforcement of the law by race, gender, religion, and ethnic advocacy group, they encourage racial behaviors that would otherwise not normally occur as a function of race, religion, gender or ethnic group. This is a concept most of you would do well to stop supporting.

    When Chief Dean and others are stopping people on reasonable suspicion, they are doing so because individuals display behaviors that lead to suspicions of unlawfulness. If you thinbk they are doing it specifically to “racially profile” you are being the classic “liberal fanatic” who relies on emotion more than fact to establish their political ideology.

    Yes, racial profiling occurs, but so do earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and asteroids hitting the planet. The point is it happens RARELY, and the VAST majority of the time people are ACTUALLY arrested because they have broken the law. If people weren’t so ideologically radical about protecting races, genders, religions and ethnicities from the professional and dutiful actions of police, and focus instead on INDIVIDUAL BEHAVIORS this BS would cease to be relevant and a non-issue.

    “illegal” immigrants break the law and cause great harm on everyone else affected by that. For this they deserve to be arrested. “legal” immigrants (also individual behavior) do not break the law, and thus do not deserve to be arrested (and are not, unless a very RARE mistaken behavior is observed).

    Get your brains in gear people!

  18. Moon-howler

    I didn’t notice it was a nazi either, but I am not horribly observant. What I did notice is that the cartoon was about City of Manassas. Great for them that their crime rate went down. They didn’t have a Resolution either. Previews of PWC appear to indicate that theirs did go up, slightly. Murder and rape are not trendable.

    It was a stupid cartoon. Opinion wins for the best, most succinctly expressed, ‘opinion.’

  19. Moon-howler

    Michael…ewwwwww….you broadbrushed!

    (all of you forget this bacause of your tendency to analysze everything relative to racial favorites and racial hatreds).

  20. michael

    Ok, Moon, Many… of you forget this. Personally, I see a lot more that think in terms of racism and racial issues (that are not racial), than do not, and think in more correct and accurate terms of individual behaviors, individual fairness, individual entitlements and rights of individuals rather than groups.
    Entitlement group think is destroying America and harming innocent individuals.

  21. DB

    I have to agree with poor Richard, maybe the illustrator of the cartoon was leaning toward our modern day usage of Nazi. The “soup Nazi” on Seinfeld is one example, the fact that “Nazi” is used to refer to a person or group that is over the top in their beliefs. My friend refers to members of the La Leche league as “boob Nazis”, that she some describes the catholic school parents that she deals with as “Denim jumper wearing Nazis”. I’ve been to meetings when a management type person would not compromise on anything because it did not go by the book. After the meeting, many referred to him as a Nazi, because he was unwilling to bend the rules, and see the reality of how things are. The worst meeting was when a person would not see the others’ views, and one person said “Quit being a Nazi.” Oops..the person who was in charge freaked out b/c she had relatives who died in the holocaust.

  22. Alanna

    I agree with Poor Richard both Skinner and Deane are honorable men who have protected the citizenry from the anti-immigrant crowd.

    And, I too, am not sure what this cartoon is trying to say. If it’s a regular police officer then he is dressed oddly and isn’t flattering the City Police Department. Second, why does the newspaper say ‘Da Paper’? Da or Das does translate into German but there’s no indication in his uniform that he is a ‘nazi’ but he is weird looking.

    What? It’s a cartoon that isn’t particularly clear in it’s meaning. To deny there’s something “off” with it seems to be slightly delusional.

  23. BeckyD

    This cartoonist uses the word “da” a lot. As in “da people”, “da government”. He’s done it in the past and I’d always assumed it was a poor attempt at humor or colloquialism. (I was born and raised in VA and haven’t heard anyone using the word “da” however.) Bottom line, his cartoons are often confusing and based on mixed up messages/info. As in this one where he talks about the City’s crime rate but associates it with PWC’s resolution and the Nazi’s. I too immediately thought of the Nazi’s when I saw this and couldn’t quite put my finger on why (no swastika). I think it is b/c the uniform coat is long and belted and the officer is wearing high boots. The artist (using this term very loosely) hasn’t shown great skill with satire in the past. Nor are his caricatures very good. He’ll do a sketch of Gov. Kaine, Corey Stewart, Marty Nohe, or Wally Covington, etc. and they all look the same. In real life, they couldn’t look more different. Just another example of mediocrity at the Potomac News. Really sad as it used to be better.

  24. GainesvilleResident

    Da in front of the English word paper – doesn’t seem to translate to anything meaningful if it is the German word ‘da’. Also, if that’s the case why didn’t they use the German word for Paper too. I think people are reaching with the German/Nazi stuff. But who knows what this silly cartoon was trying to say. Even stranger that a newspaper would publish a cartoon with someone holding up ‘Da Paper’. The uniform – mainly the hat is strange looking – but doesn’t look like any kind of hat Nazis or German troops in general wore. It is actually a poorly done cartoon – I’ve never seen one that was so hard to figure out what it was they were trying to say. I would hope that cartoonist’s other works are a little less confusing to interpret.

  25. IVAN

    Does anyone remember the Conservative Conference in D.C. a few weeks ago? When Michael Steele got up to speak Michelle Bachman (R-Min.) shouted “Michael Steele, you DA man”. Perhaps “Da Paper” has its roots in a similiar slang expression.

  26. Moon-howler

    Michael, just wanted to let you know I wasn’t asleep at the switch.;)
    DB, as usual, you have brought levity to the thread. I laughed at the boob nazis. Funny. My brother and I used to call NW airlines flight attendants Sky Nazis.

    The term Nazi has crept its way into the vernacular and is used as you stated. I don’t think most people take it seriously and consider it a descriptor of inflexible behavior.

    On the other hand, I have been called a communist or socialist many times because of some of my beliefs. I guess anyone who would vote democratic is probably at least a socialist, in the eyes of some. I don’t think that is meant the same way.

  27. DB

    It’s NOT about Nazis or skinheads and their latest form of politics , da or not. It’s all about the American usage of the term “Nazi” in 2009, “Nazi” being a term of derision and somehow popular, albeit humerous, slang much like “nigga” or “dog” or “bitch”, depending on who you say that to and in what venue. It’s all about what sect of white folk that will accept “nazi” as a moniker, as there are sects of black folk who will accept “nigga”, “dog” and the like. Honestly, who wants to be referred to as “dog”? White kids. The term “Nazi” is finding it’s way up there too in the american english teenage vernacular.

  28. michael

    Alanna , I’m not denying the cartoon is off, I disagree with it and its mixed message. What I’m pointing out is the rapid reaction by people to make immediate racial “assumptions” about it that is so characteristic of the way people think today. THAT is what is OFF.

  29. michael

    And delusional…

  30. ShellyB

    I agree that Chief Deane and Sheriff Skinner are honorable leaders and I do appreciate how they have protected the community. I don’t really care about the drawing. Even if it was intended to offend someone, I don’t even know who, and it’s only one person with a extreme point of view. What scares me is when 20 or 30 people with extreme points of view band together and take over a county government. Thank goodness they have now been neutralized and we can trust our leaders to work together to dig ourselves out of the holes we’re in.

    Let’s hope we can also turn around the crime statistics set back. We were on a roll until the extremists came along. Was Manassas City also on a roll? With crime rates dropping for many consecutive years? I hope their trend continues despite what happens in PWC. Nope. Not jealous.

  31. ShellyB

    Ivan, why did you have to remind me of Michelle Bachman’s “You da man” ???? That was really, really ugly. I don’t even know the word to describe it. How do you describe an ultra-conservative hate monger Congresswoman, temporarily convinced the future of the Republican Party depends on seeming more “urban,” “hip-hop,” or “Black,” celebrating the selection of a Black GOP Chairman by trying and failing to SOUND Black? Yucky yucky ick ick.

  32. Gainesville Resident

    Crime rates for most crimes in Manassas City have been dropping at least for the past 5 years, as far as I can remember. May have been longer – in any event the trend has been downward overall. The homicide rate had been up and down a little, but it was such a small sample size that statistically speaking, you can’t really draw a conclusion if it goes up or down from one year to the next.

  33. Gainesville Resident

    BeckyD said “This cartoonist uses the word “da” a lot. As in “da people”, “da government”. He’s done it in the past and I’d always assumed it was a poor attempt at humor or colloquialism.”

    So now that we’ve settled the debate as far as the cartoonist writing any German words – I still don’t see how anything else in the cartoon conveys Germans or Nazis. I think people are reaching when they are drawing that conclusion – and it may be that the word Nazi was used a lot by several posters on this blog for awhile in connection with the resolution. I can maybe see how people thought the word Da was a reference to German, but apparently given the history of this cartoonist, it obviously was not. I don’t read that newspaper – as a long time ago they used to deliver free copies of it while I was away on business travel, and would litter up the front of my house. When I called them to complain (stop throwing them there if you already see 5 or 10 older copies sprayed all over my lawn) – the lady got indignant and told me I shouldn’t complain about getting something for free and I’m a cheapskate for not subscribing to the paper! She missed my point, I didn’t even want the free copies – I wasn’t interested in the paper in the first place so why would I want to pay for it? That gave me a taste of what their “customer service” was like, so my impression of them was not good.

  34. Alanna

    Lighten up. We’re just discussing an ‘odd’ cartoon. You’re strung a bit too tight lately. Have you had a vacation recently?

    Also, all this “racial stuff” is brought up by you more than anybody else. I have said it numerous times but I’ll say it again, neither I, nor any of the other moderators have any ethno-centric concerns. It doesn’t matter to me what race or color any undocumented person might be. Why you continually make that assertion is beyond me.

  35. Alanna

    “Das” translates to “the” in German and “Da” is “there”. Thanks to BeckyD though for clearing up any confusion. It just isn’t a particularly flattering representation of a city policeman that’s for sure.

  36. Moon-howler

    Compare the uniform to the SS uniform. It could be a veiled reference to supposed gestapo tactics.


    I honestly just think that people confuse their geography as it relates to jurisdictions. Good for the Manassas Police for keeping that crime down. I have relatives living in the city and I want them to be safe.

  37. Gainesville Resident

    It is very strange how so many people who seemingly live in the area confuse City of Manassas with Prince William County. When I moved to the area many years ago, and at that time lived in Prince William County, I knew right away that City of Manassas was a separate jurisdiction. Maybe it was because I lived right on the edge of the border – I suppose.

    Somehow this cartoonist doesn’t strike me as being particularly bright – given comments about his other cartoons – but suppose it could be a reference to a Getsapo uniform. The crazy hat is what still throws me for a loop though – doesn’t look like any kind of hat any officer or military force has ever worn – well, except maybe if you turn Napoleon’s hat sideways!

  38. A PW County Resident

    Gee, I read “Da” the same way as “Da Bears” meaning “The Bears”, which has been a comedy routine for years involving fans of the Chicago Bears.

    I really don’t understand the point of the cartoon, however.

  39. Slowpoke Rodriguez


    That’s what I was thinking. There’s no swastika on it, but I’ll concede the resemblance.

  40. Moon-howler

    I am so stubborn I just had to go look at a picture….

    At least the cartoonist got people talking. He/she did achieve something, regardless of how off base the cartoon was.

  41. ShellyB

    Thanks Gainesville Resident. So the overall trend for the region has been for crime going down. And that’s true for Manassas City. And, so this trend has continued despite recent setbacks that hinder police and public safety. But Prince William County was not able to maintain this trend, and crime rates here have gone up. But overall the trend has been down, so maybe PWC will bounce back next year. It really is sad and unfair that people lost so much trust in law enforcement around here. I believe in PWC’s finest.

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