Number of Hispanic Students Enrolled Sept. 30

School System
















About the only quantifiers we have as far as immigration goes come from schools. Immigrants generally have children. The Virginia State Board of Education keeps data on ethnicity as set by the federal government.

The above data shows the number of Hispanics enrolled in the 3 school systems on Sept. 30 of the given year. It looks like MC gained 74 more Hispanic students. MP lost 82 students between 2007 and 2008. The county lost 531 students from 2007 to 2008. I can just see Corey Stewart and Greg hi-fiving each other. It appears, however, that Help Save Manassas, didn’t (Save Manassas, that is.)

So much for the great plan that was supposed to save us all that money.  Many of us will be waiting for Corey to turn that savings over to the school system.  Pony  up Corey Stewart!  Where is that money we supposedly saved?

In the grand scheme of things,in a school system that has just under 74,000 students,  losing 531 students is , to quote Mr. Stewart, a ‘drop in the bucket.’

[NOTE:  Many of these students could very well be from families of legal immigrants. Additionally, they very well might not be involved with any LEP classes.  Some could have lived here for generations.  There is no way to tell exactly.]

68 Thoughts to “Crunching the Numbers…and Extrapolating”

  1. Witness Too

    Well, if we go along with the Letiecq/Stewart conceit that Hispanic = “illegal.” It looks to me like a very interesting trend has emerged in this graph you’ve provided:

    In Manassas, the number of Hispanic students went up during the past year, and crime went down.

    In Prince William County, the number of Hispanic students went down during the past year, and crime when up.

    When will somebody on the Board, preferably a Republican, step forward and publicly refute the Letiecq/Stewart claim that Hispanic = “illegal” = crime? This talk is poisoning our county, and destroying our reputation.

  2. Poor Richard

    The drop-out numbers are getting attention across Virginia.
    For example, today’s Lynchburg News-Advances compares its
    two high schools – E.C.Glass(12.8%) and Heritage(8.4%).
    Their article notes the harsh fact that “black students have
    a drop-out rate six times greater than white students.”
    The Lynchburg story didn’t mention Hispanic student rates.

  3. ShellyB

    In the grand scheme of things, in a school system that has just under 74,000 students, losing 531 students is , to quote Mr. Stewart, a ‘drop in the bucket.’

    Wonderful. So we paid 30 million dollars for an Immigration Resolution because a handful of wild eyed extremists wanted less Hispanic people (who they wrongly assumed to be undocumented) in their neighborhood.

    But the fact is that before the Immigration Resolution we had 25% of our public school enrollment Hispanic (and assumed to be undocumented), and now we have 24%.

    If that’s any indication, the fabulous foursome of Greg Letiecq, Corey Stewart, Rob Duecaster, and John Stirrup managed to thin out the Hispanic (and wrongly assumed to be undocumented population) by a measly one percent!!!

    Or, at a cost of 30 million dollars to taxpayers, that’s about 30 million dollars per percentage point!!!

    How can they refer to this as a success and still keep a straight face? Their only recourse was to hope that crime statistics continued their 8 year tend of going down thanks to the excellent work of Chief Deane his officers and his staff. That way, they could at least claim credit for Chief Deane’s work (and hope no one is smart enough to point out that crime ALREADY HAD BEEN GOING DOWN during the very years they claimed there was an invasion).

    But the crime rate didn’t go down. It went up for the first time since 2001. So what do Greg and Corey do? They focus on two categories where crime went down and crow about those two categories.

    But if the crime rate was still going down, as been the trend all decade long, do you think FOR ONE MINUTE that these two liars would be picking out the two statistics where crime went up?

    Murder is up this year. Do you think they’d be harping on that?

  4. Moon-howler

    They aren’t going to be harping on the murders, I don’t think. If I recall correctly, none of the murders in 2008 were committed by illegal immigrants.

    The 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse, mentioned above, are finally figuring out that all of their assertions are quantifiable. Now that the numbers are coming in, they are looking mighty suspicious. Who wants to get caught in a political lie?

  5. kelly3406

    Your use of statistics on this blog is simply laughable. You castigate Corey Stewart for his interpretation of statistics, but then extrapolate much further than even he has. Whether it is crime, drop-out rates, or numbers of Hispanics in the school system, your mis-interpretions undercut your claim to being “a reasonable
    voice for Prince William politics, and the immigration debate.”

    Particularly for crime, the sample sizes are too small, too short, and too flawed to make any determination. Trends due to other factors such as the economy have to be accounted for. The trends in total crime are statistically insignificant.

    I enjoy reading your witty discussions, but I completely discount any of the amateurish statistics that I have seen presented here.

  6. Moon-howler

    Radical change of subject….AWC is kicking some ass out there where it needs to be kicked. The moral of this story is not to give slack jaw to the old guard of the state. Too bad she is having to deal with children in huge quantities. That’s probably how young Jeffie took over at the helm to start with.

    AWC, remember even if we all disagree about the practicalities of illegal immigration, you have friends here on Anti. Many regulars are Republicans. Not me, I left when politics and religion got too intertwined.

  7. FormerComemployee

    In all fairness, I have NEVER heard either Letiecq or Stewart say they want less Hispanics. What I have always heard them say is they want less illegals. Now, if that means less Hispanics, then so be it. But you do the same thing you accuse them of doing. You turn the numbers around to fit your agenda. The bottom line is, if there were no illegals in the country, then there would be less crime. This would be true even if only one illegal alien committed a crime in the US. It would be one less crime victim. Now with that said, I do not always agree with the way letiecq does things or the way he expresses himself and in fact sometimes I believe he is an idiot who has ruined the good agenda he has with his insensitive remarks and spouting them off with his religious agenda. But the fact is, you are as guilty as him. I am sick and tired of being called a racist because I want my country to enforce its laws and deport ANY person regardless of their race or country of origin, back to their country. I am sick of tired of picking up my local paper to see another story of a child raped by an illegal. Now I know what your response will be, something like “illegals aren’t the only ones who commit crimes.” Well, this may be true, but maybe we could concentrate on AMERICAN citizens who commit crimes if we weren’t tracing around the country side tracking illegal aliens who commit crimes. I am not a racist and I do not hate Hispanics, I just hate people who come to this country illegally, commit crimes, fly the flag of their home country and refuse to assmilate themselves into the good values of this country, no matter what country they are from.

  8. Elena

    I urge you to read Greg’s blog then. When he talks about crime, he ONLY talks about hispanics. The people that blog on there, primarily, talk about how they hate hearing spanish. Greg isn’t stupid, he isn’t going to come out and say it’s all about hispanics, but when you talk about the border, we all know what you mean, you mean, SOUTH of the border. Who does Greg talk about in his conspiratoral invastion?…..the Mexican government and the Zapistas(not sure how to spell it , but you get the idea).

  9. Elena

    Also, FCE, personally, I don’t want my resources directed at people who stay here to work. I want them directed at Fire and Rescue, Schools, land conservation, sufficient police to keep our communities safe, more drug rehab programs, more money for child protective services, more money for elderly care and services, etc etc etc. It’s all about priorities, and illegal immigration is WAYYYY down on my list.

  10. Elena

    Kelly, how do you respond to the premise that illegal immigration, had wrought “lawlessness” to our community. Where, where do you see ANY evidence to support that theory? @kelly3406

  11. Elena

    “keep it simple stupid” as James Carville told Clinton. That was very simply and eloquently put Witness Too! Bravo@Witness Too

  12. Moon-howler

    Former, no they haven’t come right out and said they want fewer Hispanics but every once in a while they confuse ‘Hispanic’ with ‘illegal.’

    Now, I am going to beg your pardon, but I have turned NO numbers around. I took them right off the VA State Board of Education Website. You are free to do the same thing. I challenge you. Show me where I have made up numbers. I take exception to you telling me (I assume you were talking to me since I wrote this thread) that I am as guilty as Letiecq. Guilty of what? I have not called you a racist. I have only called one person here a racist and I expect you would agree with me. I haven’t spouted religion or even said illegal immigration is a good thing. It isn’t. It isn’t a good thing for anyone involved.

    So what to do about it. You know as well as I do that we cannot deport 10 million people. You know that the handling of immigration falls under federal purview. I don’t want my tax dollars going to vilify people and to attempt to swat at flies. I want to put my money into areas where we have local control. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. It does not make me like Letiecaq. Far from it.

  13. Witness Too

    Elena and Kelly, the “lawlessness” claim was not just a premise. It was the primary foundation of the Immigration Resolution. It said so right there in the “where as” section before it unveiled it’s plan to misdirect public safety resources and misdirect our police department against the advice of our Chief of Police.

    As for the “statistical analysis” (I assume you’re directing this at me Kelly), all I can say is that I never would have taken any interest in combing through crime statistics until I saw what Letiecq and Stewart were trying to do. In a year when a good trend is reversed, and a bad trend starts, when we have MORE crime per 1000 persons when 12 of the last 14 years had LESS, these two jokers go around bragging that crime in two categories have gone down, claiming that it’s because “X” has left town.

    All I’m doing is looking at what limited information we have, I mean REAL information not insinuation and supposition which is all the Immigration Resolution was based on. The real data calls into question two important pillars of the claims Letiecq and Stewart are making.

    It’s because “X” left town? Well, statistic seem to indicate not many of them left town, first of all. And, if the “X” people are somehow related to crime rates, how come Manassas City, which now has MORE “X” people has less crime? And how come PWC, which supposedly has less “X” people, now has MORE crime?

    Letiecq and Stewart are the ones trying to throw sand in your eyes Kelly. They were making these insinuations where there were no statistics available. Now they’re trying to cover their butts because the statistics don’t bear out what they claimed. I’m not the one who tried to justify a radical new agenda based on hearsay and speculation. It says a lot that you go after me and not them, an awful lot.

  14. Witness Too

    Former Com, I used “X” instead of “Hispanic” or “illegal” in deference to your protest. I certainly don’t think anyone who has complaints about illegal immigration is a racist.

  15. Witness Too

    But ya know, M-H is right. Letiecq purposely conflates “Hispanic” and “illegal,” and Stewart does so as well, more slyly and often inadvertently for one VERY IMPORTANT REASON. A person’s legal status cannot be seen, so there is no way to make everyone afraid of legal status.

    Face it.

    There is not a single radio program, not a single cable news program, not a single blog, not a single kitchen table argument, where people do not rely on “Hispanic” as a stand-in for “illegal.”

    An expired visa is invisible. A dark skinned man waving a Mexican flag is not invisible. (Still doesn’t mean he’s an “illegal” though).

    They use “Hispanic” as a stand-in because people can see Hispanics, whether it be on their TV or in real life, and if they’re not accustomed to it, and if you tell them they are likely to be criminals who “rape children,” they can be made to be afraid, very afraid.

    And when people are afraid, they can be easily manipulated.

    And that’s what Letiecq and Stewart do and have done. And at the base of that is the conflation of “Hispanic” with “illegal.” Why? Because you can’t make people afraid of something unless they can see it.

  16. Rebecca

    You all must have gotten under the black velvet’s skin. He is after Chief Deane again. I guess he doesn’t like all these facts being brought out. He is trying to bring in 2007 statistics. Is this what they call being on the ropes?

  17. Elena

    Excellent rebuttal M-H!

  18. Moon-howler

    Thanks, Elena.

    Kelly, let’s talk about the extrapolations and why I felt it necessary to ‘extrapolate.’ You will agree with me that we have no idea how many illegal immigrants lived in PWC on say, Oct. 16, 2007, the day the Resolution was ‘passed.’ (or one of the times it was passed) You will also recall that claims were made by some local politicians as well as the dark screen that something like 900 ESOL students had left PWC schools and had gone elsewhere.

    School populations are often used to benchmark data that is otherwise unattainable. An example of this might be poverty. How do we determine poverty? Well, one such way, short of looking into people’s bank accounts, is to determine the number of kids on free or reduced lunch in a given school. It isn’t perfect, but the information is extrapolated through other means.

    I did that with the stats from the VA Dept of Education. Now the rub is, many people who are classified as Hispanic certainly aren’t illegal aliens. I hope I made that clear. And that is why I said I had to extrapolate information. I thought my disclaimer was clear. There is no way to land on exact information. Life isn’t perfect.

    You know, had I not had to read so many times how much the Resolution was working and how getting rid of those ESOL was proof that it was working, I would have never written this thread when I bumped into the raw data, quite by accident.

    What you failed to comment on was the point, each year MC has had an increase in Hispanic students. This past year, PWC did not. I find that noteworthy. Oh and for the record, it is no more accurate to use Hispanic students than it is to use ESOL students as a quantifier. Hispanic students often are here legally. ESOL students come from many countries. In particular, PWC services many Asian and Middle Eastern students, although the majority of ESOL students are from Latin American countries.

  19. Second-Alamo

    OK gang, then someone come up with some ‘statistics’ on how many ‘illegals’ are Hispanic relative to all ‘illegals’. If the vast majority are Hispanic (no surprise here since they are closest to our porous southern border), then equating Hispanics with ‘illegals’ is not a misleading comparison. The statement would then be that most Hispanics aren’t illegal, but most illegals are Hispanic. So then we should be talking about ‘illegal Hispanics’ to be more accurate. I’ll wait for the ‘statistics’ just in case.

  20. Moon-howler

    Well SA, were are we going to get those statistics? You and I both know that is not possible.

    What is bugging me about many of the nay-sayers on this thread is the digging about extrapolating the data. I said right up front, in the title even, that the information had to be extrapolated. Illegal immigrants might start being honest about their status when there is no longer a penalty for doing so. We all know that isn’t going to happen.

    Dispute what I am saying but don’t start cracking on the fact I can’t get specific answers. No one can.

    What we can surmise is that any of those figures in the above chart are less than or equal to the number of illegal Hispanic immigrants. Nothing more, nothing less.

  21. Poor Richard

    Please note:
    – MCPS Limited English Proficient students went from 24% of
    the total population in FY05 to 35% in FYO9. The Eligible
    for Free and Reduced Lunch grew from 23% in FYO5 to 37% in FY09.
    – History, nation wide, shows that when those numbers are high
    then the drop-out rate is normally high.
    – A rapid influx of poor and often illiterate students places
    tremendous stress on a local school system. (The Federal
    government’s main “contribution”, by the way, comes with a
    flood of rules and mandates — but only a trickle of funding.)
    – MCPS are doing great work under the circumstances and
    I hope that those who do comparisons, compare “apples and apples”.

  22. formerComemployee

    Here is the only number I care about, if there were no illegals here the number of crimes would go down and that would mean less crime victims. The bottom line is illegal aliens do not belong here and “yes” we can deport 10 million illegals. Not over night, but over time it can be done and I for one will gladly pay a few more dollars to have every single illegal deported. This is America, Live it, Love it, or leave it (and do it legally). Mexico and other Latin American countries are not sending their doctors and professors. They are sending the lowest common denominator they have. I am sorry if that offends anyone, but it is the truth. My main problem is illegals come here and want to retain their countries values and traditions. That is not the way it works, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Take your GD Mexican and El Salvador and any other flags off your house and vehicles and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine. There are many people from Latin America countries who come here and do it the right way and many even serve our country bravely. These are the ones I feel sorry for because they unfortunatley get lumped in with the scumbags by people like Greg Letiecq.

  23. Moon-howler

    Not everyone who is a productive member of society comes to the USA legally, Former, I sense you are very angry and I also sense, from your words, that you have been doing some reading that perhaps is fueling your flames.

    The reality is, you are playing the ‘what if’ game. ‘What if’ really gets us no where. What if we did manage to deport 10 million people. How many years would it take? How many would come back since none of our borders are secure? If a plane holds 300 people, that would be just under 34,000 planes headed to parts unknown. How would you gather the people? Would you have endless raids with storm trooper types banging on people’s doors in the middle of the night? Or might you just put everyone on the honor system?

    I do not even want to hear the restrains of ‘I will pay more taxes.’ Obviously that isn’t going to happen. Just tune into the past 4 BOCS meetings to hear how they all feel about raising taxes. Those nitwits want to reduce our taxes at a time when our service and public safety need ramping up, not reduced. You see, they don’t want to offend businesses. There is always a freaking subset of someone’s political cluster who they don’t want to irritate.

    As for assimilation, the Hispanic immigrants are no different than the Irish, the Jews (from all over), the Polish, the Italians who have come into this country. Many of the original people didn’t learn English, yearned for the old country where they had friends and family. It wasn’t until the second and third generations came along that they began to think of themselves as Americans. Why would those from Latin America be a bit different?

    And you might see a few more flags for a few weeks. World Cup.

  24. Moon-howler

    Poor Richard, thank you for bringing up the accomplishments of Manassas Park. I agree with you. They have perhaps been impacted more than any other jurisdiction simply because they are small. However, they have overall excellent test scores, despite the huge increases in economically disadvantaged and LEP students. I am always impressed when I see their band. They have so much spirit and pride. Their athletic teams show this same spirit. They really are an example of success on so many different levels. In this case smaller does seem better.

  25. kelly3406

    This is a reply to #10 (Elena) and #18 (Moon-howler).

    Elena: statistics do not always matter. I view any crime commited by an illegal as preventable in that the crime could have been avoided if the illegal were not in the U.S. The murder of Chandra Levy by an illegal alien is a good example. I therefore support any effort to deport illegals convicted of other crimes.

    As for the comment by Moon-howler, the need to rebut arguments does not make your extrapolations valid. Your analysis may be completely wrong. I cannot explain the variations in Hispanic enrollment between Manassas and PWC.

    Here is an interpretation that does fit the data: illegals left in droves to be partially replaced by legal immigrants drawn to larger Hispanic communities in Manassas. The large number of foreclosures made inexpensive housing more available to immigrants.

    I doubt that my “interpretation” is actually correct, but the data that you provided cannot disprove it. That is why it is so hard to interpret statitics and there are so many contradictory atudies if the truth goes against prevailing wisdom.

    I also find your analysis objectionable on moral grounds: I favor legal immigration of Hispanics, or any other nationality, so long as the law is followed. Legal immigration is the lifeblood for maintaining the viability of the nation.

    I must also confess that I do not understand your reference to “the dark screen.”

  26. ShellyB

    Kelly, there are so many people on this blog who have illustrated it over and over again. If “crime” and “public safety” were really the concern, there are so many better ways to spend the money. We could start by adequately staffing our police and fire departments.

    The Immigration Resolution was inspired and powered by anxiety over demographic shifts, which as nothing to do with crime. In fact, during the period when the demographic shift took place, crime was going down.

    You say “if there were no illegals there would be less crime.” Well, that would be true if there were no people with tattoos, no left handed people, no people with detached earlobes, no people with hangnails, etc. Law enforcement and public safety don’t work that way. You allocate your resources in the way that best protects the community, or you make other things a priority over that. The Immigration Resolution has made other things a priority over that.

    Remember the cabinet member, I think he was a secretary of education under Bush the First, who said, “If African Americans would have more abortions there would be less crime”? He got in huge trouble for saying that. It’s just wrong to attach crime to a particular minority of people, especially when statistics show it isn’t true.

  27. formerComemployee

    ShellyB, your last comment was just plain stupid. It is a FACT, there would be less crime if illegals weren’t here. I have never seen any statistic s pertaining to crimes committed by people with tattoos or left handed people. I didn’t attach my statement of crime to a race of people, I placed it on a particular group of people who happen to be illegal. That is my point people like you make claims people like me state our feelings against illegal immigration you resort to the race statement. Those are just a stupid comments coming from an illegal alien apologists. I don’t mind debating people who have valid understandable arguments, but yours were just plain DUMB. I don’t care how fast we deport them as long as we are deporting them, bottom line. Let them get back in line and do it the proper way blike the hundreds of thousands who do it every year.

  28. TWINAD

    Former Com,

    See your last sentence and then read the link I have provided above. There is NO PROPER WAY FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO GET HERE LEGALLY EACH YEAR! There are 5,000 visa’s for the unskilled workers, yet over the last few years 850,000 were coming in and taking low skilled jobs. I’m sorry, but you are ranting about that what you obviously don’t know anything about. So I don’t think you should be casting stones at others when you obviously are under the impression that hundreds of thousands of low skilled workers have been allowed to come in “a legal way”. That is unequivocally FALSE.

  29. ShellyB

    Former Com,

    You sound very angry and frustrated. I hope TWINAD’s post won’t cause you to quit the blog like so many of the other more angry participants. When faced with real information, many of them have just thrown up their hands and quit. I hope you will break the pattern.

    It’s okay not to have all the facts. No one has ALL the facts. That’s what learning is all about. We all have different areas where we are knowledgeable and not so knowledgeable. That’s the beautify of a virtual conversation. You can test out things you might have heard and see if there is any validity. If there isn’t someone will point it out, but it’s not embarrassing because you didn’t say it in person. I’ll be the first to admit I’ve learned a lot on this blog by saying something that was inaccurate and having people point it out.

    For instance, you are very correct that there is no existing movement to reduce crime by ridding our community of people with tattoos or left handed people. I apologize for alarming you. My intent was to create an example of why the best way to lose weight is not to chop off one of your legs.

  30. formerComemployee

    You are correct, my comment should have just said like the hundreds of thousands who have done it. My bad. But I have been involved in this issue for several years in my previous job and now with my new job. I happen to know a lot more than you may think. I am not a regular poster and do not plan on becoming one. The people on the other site are way too far to the right and most of the people on this site are way too far to the left. I really believe I represent the silent majority who believe there is middle ground and even discussed it with state level polititions. Even though it falls on deaf ears. I actually had what I believe is a great idea but it starts with sealing the border even if means putting the National Guard on the border. The bottom line is it has to start with sealing the border and until we get polititions who will represent the American people and not special interest groups, especially groups like Mexicans without borders, we are doomed to have a country that allows terrorists and criminals to come and go as they please.

  31. formerComemployee

    By the way Shelly, I am angry and frustrated, as I stated before, I am sick and tired of seeing crimes committed that are 100% preventable. I am sick of career polititions who lie, cheat and steal their way to their positions and do not want to represent the American people. I am sick of liberals who want to give what I earn to the people who don’t want to earn their own money (redistribution of wealth) (another subject) So yeah, I am angry and frustrated. I have worked hard in my life to see it go to ungrateful people who are lazy and criminals and why, because the Democrats believe they own my money and believe we should allow anyone who wants to come here illegally stay for any amount of time and rape and rob law abiding citizens.

  32. Moon-howler

    I don’t think THE Democrats (whoever they are) want to allow just anyone to come here any more than I think THE Republicans do. Now there is a strong argument suggesting that some republicans might, since they were in control from 2000-2006. That is when some of the main immigration issues really got jumping.

    Former, I am going to ask you to please not call people names. Illegal alien apologist makes no sense. Telling people their ideas are stupid probably isn’t the best either. Telling them why you feel as you do is perfectly acceptable.

    Probably most people who blog here have plenty of experience with illegal immigration. We aren’t some bunch of elitists who sit around and think about low the poor illegal. We just don’t blindly dislike people because of their status. The business about if they weren’t here the crime wouldn’t have been committed doesn’t make sense to me. It would have probably been committed somewhere. A child being raped in El Salvador is just as bad as a child being raped in Manassas Park. The only difference is, I probably won’t know about it in El Salvador.

    I actually agree with you about sealing the borders and I believe it is getting more imperative that we do so as the violence there increases. We don’t need that crap spilling over into this country. I think we also need to not feel so secure about the Canadian border. The Canadian government is more relaxed than we are about who comes into the country. That in itself is cause for caution.

  33. Moon-howler

    Kelly, I might have just blamed former for something you said. You know that what you are saying is chapter and verse out of FAIR, NumbersUSA and VADare.

    I think you are still missing the point that I was making. The Illegal Immigration crowd has gone about the countryside telling whoever would listen that the Immigration Resolution worked (patting themselves on the back) because there were over 900 fewer ESOL students in March 2008 than there were in Sept 2007. In fact, you can go read the thread about it on bvbl.

    Your argument could be used just as easily on that ascertion. You don’t know. I don’t know. Yes, you might be right. I seriously doubt it. I know for a fact that there are still illegal immigrants in all three school systems represented. So hordes of them didn’t leave, as suggested. There is not a huge savings from all the ESOL students (who it was assumed were illegal)who left. If there is a huge savings, where is it?

    Next question. Kelly, by the way, you aren’t going to scare me off, just in case you were laboring under that impression.

  34. Second-Alamo

    Regardless of the opinions posted here I think that when the dust settles it will be shown that the Resolution did have a positive impact on PWC. Even the ACLU didn’t show its face in defense of those targeted by the Resolution, and that says a lot about how fairly it was enacted. I’m sure Maryland is starting to think along the same lines, as reality has a way of clearing your vision.

  35. ShellyB

    Well, Former Com, I’m glad you didn’t quit on us. That says a lot about your character. Do you understand what I’m saying though, that if public safety is the issue, you should take actions that improve public safety rather than hurt it. Even if you have constituents who believe there is some link between Hispanics (whom they assume to be illegal when they see them) and crime, if you pass laws based on their assumption, you end up making us ALL less safe, not just the people who fear Hispanics (whom they assume to be illegal when they see them).

    It sounds like all the things that make you mad are the things that make Republicans mad in general. Nothing wrong with being mad. I was plenty mad when Bush was destroying the country. Now you probably feel that way about Obama. What are you gonna do?

  36. FormerComemployee

    I admit, I lean Republican. And I am not afraid to say I don’t think Bush ruined our Country. However, I will admit both sides have not helped our country with the illegal immigration issue. I fully support a strong public safety and specifically to allow local officers to deport anyone they stop for due cause found to be here illegally. Back to Bush, he kept this country safe after 9/11. This is something that people forget. As far as Irag, maybe we went for the wrong reasons, but the fact remains a brutal dictator who was killing his own people was taken out of power. But I stray from the real issue. I am not afraid of hispanics and again, that is a tactic you use to try and discredit people who admit their agenda is to rid this country of illegals. I am afraid this country is being overrun by people who we have no clue of their background. For all we know mass murders are coming over the border. I don’t live in PWC but I believe the resolution had a positive impact.

  37. ShellyB

    Former Com, when did illegal immigration first begin to worry you, and what prompted it? I ask because I never heard a peep about illegal immigration until a certain point in Bush’s presidency when it looked like he might never dig himself out of the Iraq/Katrina whole. Were you concerned about illegal immigration back when “the war on terror” and gay marriage was all Republicans needed to win elections? If so, did you try to alert them that the Marriage Amendment was dealing with the wrong crisis in 2006?

  38. ShellyB

    I’m sorry. That was a really loaded question. I just wanted to ask if you were one of those people who would be concerned about the issue even if you weren’t a Republican, or if you were a Republican first and then became concerned about the issue in the course of an election campaign.

  39. FormerComemployee

    Shelly, I said I lean Republican, because I believe they can best protect our country. I also believe in small government. As far as gay marriage, I believe they should be allowed to marry also. They should be as unhappy as all of us 😉 However, I disagree with many of their platforms.

  40. ShellyB

    Ha-ha! that’s the funniest take on gay marriage I’ve seen (= Thanks for the humor in humoring my question.

  41. Moon-howler

    That was a good one, Former. Thanks for the laugh.

    I think there are all sorts of people in this country we don’t know anything about and obviously there are mass murderers. Look what happened in Pittsburg, in Binghamton, in Washington State, and that is all within a week. I don’t think anyone of them were illegal immigrants.

    You seem to feel that illegal immigrants are more likely to commit violent crimes than other people. I have seen no evidence of that.

    Actually, I dislike both political parties. Both are always pandering to someone. I probably lean more towards the Democrats but they are far from perfect. They have their fair share of extremist nut cases as to do Republicans.

  42. Moon-howler

    There is some dark screen jerk who cannot read. This fool contends that we contend that Manassas City’s crime rate has gone down and that it is linked to the increase in Hispanic students in the City.

    Duh. I never said or implied any such thing. The only conclusions that were drawn was that no money was saved. Get it right, anonymous. You either cannot read or enjoy lying.

  43. ShellyB

    M-H, that’s hilarious, but it plays right into yours and Alanna and Elena’s hands. If there are any non-brainwashed people who actually read Greg’s blog for information rather than entertainment, they will read that anonymous post and say, “What, where did AntiBVBL say that?” Then, they’ll come here and read all the posts, find that the conversation here is much more cordial and much more factual. And if they didn’t already know that Letiecq/Stewart/Stirrup and company had run this county into a ditch, they’d know it after a few minutes of reading your threads.

    So to “anonymous of BVBL” you should say: thank you!

  44. formerComemployee

    M-H, I never ever said, implied or stated that crime is committed more by illegal immigrants. What I said and is indeed a fact is that crimes committed by illegal immigrants are 100% preventable. I also said that if there were no illegal immigrants the crime rate would be lower. Both of those statements I made and I firmly believe them and I also believe they are 100% true. I don’t mind the critism, but if you are going to critisize me, please attribute the facts as it pertains to what I wrote, not what you believe I wrote or meant.

  45. Alanna

    Alright, let’s get this straight once and for all.

    If ‘crime is not committed more by illegal immigrants’ then crime rates will not be less if there are less ‘illegals’. Given a particular population regardless of immigration status the crime rate should basically remain the same. In fact, there have been studies that suggested that immigrants are less likely than native born to be involved in crime. The recent crime report supports these assertions.

  46. anona

    There was a column in the paper today saying one year is not enough to draw any definitive conclusions either way. I tend to agree with the column.

    A couple of years with such small numbers (which I guess we should be thankful for having such low numbers in general) is just not enough to draw a statistically significant conclusion either way. Drawing conclusions about crime statistics takes a lot more data than we currently have. To take one year and draw conclusions is silly. It would be the same as saying Chick Fil A franchises grew in the county by 120% in the past month and theft of copper wire grew by 100% in the past month therefore Chick Fil A cows must be stealing the copper wire. (I always knew those Chick Fil A cows looked suspicious)

    To prove the case either way with accurate results, one would need years of crime data and also years of the numbers regarding the growth rates of the illegal immigrant community in relation to the growth of the legal immigrant community and growth of the population in general. It would be a monumental task to compile such a report. And would such a study be worth it? I would say not. Prince William County is and has most always been a relatively safe community in which to live. That doesn’t mean every neighborhood is perfectly safe, but in general I would say almost the entire county is a fine place to live, work and raise your family without fear of crime. I am pleased to see it is staying that way thanks to the county police and the great job they do keeping us safe.

  47. FormerComemployee

    Alana, what the heck are you talking about. Again, you are no different then the guys on the other site. You work the numbers to fit your agenda. I will say it again, without illegals, the number of crime victims goes down and the crime rate goes down. Even if only one illegal in the whole US commits a crime this month, if he weren’t here, the number of crime victims decreases and the crime rate goes down. And I can’t do anything about citizens that were born here or are here legally that commit crime, but I will be damned if I sit back and watch people who are here illegally rape and rob the citizens who are here legally. My feeling is, go back where you came from and do it the right way and I will be the first to welcome you to our Country. Othewise, stay home and make your own country better.

  48. Moon-howler

    Former, are you aware of how very few people can actually come here legally from Latin American Countries now? I think you are saying words you have heard or read without knowing the facts behind them. Some people have been waiting 10-15 years.

  49. GainesvilleResident

    anona – very well said. Definitely just a one year comparison is meaningless. That can be seen in murder statistics especially in Manassas for example, where from one year to the next the murders go up and down. It is because it is such a small sample size. For anyone to speak of a trend, it has to be long lasting and has to include a very large sample size. Also, the group being sampled over time has to fit certain parameters. All of this I remember well from statistics classes as part of my engineering major. All you can really get from these crime statistics in a short period of time is whether an area is safe in general or not so safe (such as comparing PWC to DC for example).

    As far as directly relating one year’s worth of data in illegal aliens and crime – it definitely is meaningless whether the crime rate increased or decreased compared to any increase or decrease in illegal aliens.

  50. Moon-howler

    I wish someone would tell Chairman Stewart all of this. He has gone about the countryside telling anyone who would listen that the Immigration Resolution reduced crime by 20% or words to that effect.

    Several of our superviors have been caught on tape trying to create statistics about crime in PWC and they have tried to claim credit for lowered crime because of the Immigration Resolution.

    Who on earth can tell in such a short period of time who caused what?

    My only point in commenting it to counter their bogus claims. We have had a downward trend in crime for several years now. The trend is due to Chief Deane’s decision to build up the force and to target specific crime areas. Good police work reduces crime. Nothing mysterious about that.

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