How nice that the Democrats will get some free publicity out of this post. Is Corey willingly helping out the Democrats now? How odd. Strange also that he appears on Channel 5 on Cinco de Mayo. Was that planned?

Corey starts off on a good note and quickly dissolves into the usual exaggerations we have come to know and expect. He speaks of Prince William County as a boom town and touts the housing sales as a plus. He throws the School Board under the bus, again.

The 37% drop in violent crime stated by Corey leaves me speechless. Where is this statistic from?

Supposedly 1,500 illegal aliens have been deported, according to Corey. Where can I verify this statement? Do we know that deportations have taken place? What part of the illegal immigrant resolution provides for removing 1,500 illegal aliens? Isn’t that a seperate program, the 287(g) program at the jail?

How does the immigration resolution relate to illegal aliens leaving or not committing crimes? I haven’t figured out the cause/effect relationship here. Again, help me understand this. Did they leave or did they not commit crimes? If they left, could that have caused the housing foreclosure problem?

I am still trying to figure out how a house selling for 1/3 of what it would have sold for 2-3 years ago helps me and why I should be wildly excited.

After listening to Corey Stewart this morning, I thought that I was no longer living in Prince William County.

Toto, we’re not in Kansas anymore, I guess.

Maybe there really is a man behind the curtain.

147 Thoughts to “Corey Stewart Reinvents Prince William County”

  1. GainesvilleResident

    OK, I see why I’m getting in moderation. And it is an important point I made, saying I was called a certain word which has 4 letters and starts with ‘N’ and ends with ‘i’. In the middle is a and z. Now i read my post that came out of moderation and that word was edited out. So it makes my post non-sensical!

    Too bad that the people who called me that hateful name, their posts weren’t edited or moderated in the same way! Nice it is being done now, but a dollar and a day short, in my book. No excuse for calling me that back then. So Witness Too and Thumper (actually I got you two mixed up), if you read the post above where at one point I said I was called a racist and a (and it ended right there), that word that starts with a ‘N’ and ends with an ‘i’ was edited out. Even back then, I came into the debate late and only said I supported the resolution in its neutered form – this was roughly a year ago. I never made any statement saying I supported the original resolution – it was not on my event horizon at that time living in the City of Manassas, did not follow PWC news all that much believe it or not. Mostly followed City of Manassas news.

    Anyway, as I was called those two words when all I said then was “I support the resolution in its current form”, it again shows how ridiculous it was, that people would resort to name calling like that.

    I’m going to end talking about that particular aspect, but I wanted to clarify and also apparently that is why posts of mine using that word are hitting moderation, then coming out of it with that word removed.

    TOO BAD IT WASN’T DONE TO THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE WHO USED THAT WORD VICIOUSLY AND APPLIED IT TO ME AND OTHERS WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN LABELED THAT WAY. It is the equivalent of calling people of other ethnicities other hateful names, and as such I consider it hate speech.

    That’s all I’ll say on the topic. I just find it hypocritical that now that stuff is being edited/censored when it should have been a year ago when the name calling was done. Not just to me. In fact Corey Stewart has been called that name on this blog by one or two posters. Again, I don’t think anyone seriously believes he is one, do they? He is a public official, so I guess it goes with the territory, but I am not. I am also of a religion that being called that name is very very offensive, so therefore I do not forgive anyone who called me that, no matter what their motivation or how they somehow justify it in their minds.

    I’ve said my piece on this topic, and really don’t like rehashing the past, but when Corey’s remarks are objected to – in a post where it says I would probably agree with the poster (I did agree to some extent, but not about that!!!!), I feel obligated to object to some past remarks here, in really the not very distant past.

  2. Moon-howler

    Gainesville, I am trying to figure out why you got back in moderation. I don’t see why and I also don’t think we have a dirty list of deadly words you can’t use. I will keep working on why…but right now, ‘Nazi’ isn’t the culprit.

    Going back behind the curtain to sniff this out some more.

    Update: 8:19 pm I still do not see the problem. Let’s hope whatever it was stopped. Meanwhile, I will look again if it happens again. Sorry Gainesville. You are a welcome addition here and I am glad you are back. Yes, there were some quirky things going on and some misunderstandings. I will assume the responsibility for the original technical misunderstanding and offer a public apology. However, I cannot do so for what is going on now because I simply do not know.

  3. ShellyB

    @Witness Too
    I am not sure how to say this but not only Hispanics and minorities and those who get “riled up” by naked prejudice were against the Resolution. But you also have to factor in that you have to be “riled up” to have the courage to go to Citizens Time, or really to have enough motivation to do anything on top of your every day life. So it wasn’t that no one else was listening. A lot of people just didn’t want to get involved. And it was a big obstacle that there were so many hateful and frightening things being said and done. With people receiving threatening emails and anonymous threats on blogs and such.

    I guess I’m trying to say that it was brave people who went up there to speak. On both sides, because I’m sure that many pro-Resolution people were afraid of immigrants in large numbers and there were large numbers at Citizens Time in those days. If they read Greg’s blog I’m sure they even thought that all immigrants were criminals, had infectious diseases, and belonged to the “Zapatistas.”

  4. Moon-howler

    People who spoke before the BOCS in favor of the Immigration Resolution were there for a variety of reasons. To be fair, some of them had very serious neighborhood issues they wanted to address. They thought the Immigration Resolution would help solve those problems.

    Other people wanted to jump on the political band wagon.

    I always recognized the neighborhood problems. Truthfully, they haven’t all gone away either, regardless of what anyone says.

    Not everyone who saw the resolution as a solution for their neighborhood isssues can be classified as a nativist. Unfortunately, too many people have jumped on the band wagon and have taken on that kind of rhetoric. ex. illegal is illegal just to give one example.

    I will repeat for about the 200th time, I just do not think the Immigration Resolution was the solution for the problems in the neighborhoods. I think that Corey should be promoting the county. He needs to choose aspects unrelated to the Immigration Resolution to use as ‘why Prince William County is a good place to live and do business.’ Most of all, he needs to use accurate statistics.

  5. GainesvilleResident

    Funny though MH. Where I wrote that word in the moderated post, it got deleted so it said the phrase “a racist and a .” Where that word was right before the period. In another sentence that word was also deleted.

    Don’t know what’s going on, but apologize if I jumped to some conclusion the software was set to delete that word automatically.

    Anyway, I made my point, so really as I said I’ve made my peace with the whole thing, despite it being uncalled for back then. It was an attempt by some vocal subset of posters on here to paint anyone who in any way who agreed with the resolution in the slightest, as bvbl members, friends of Greg, etc. For the record, though i said it before back then, never met Greg, only know of him via bvbl (which I don’t post on but read), and would not even know what he looked like save for seeing a few pictures of him posted.

    Anyway, will close the subject with this post, but strange how that word was edited from my post somehow when it was written twice in that post and both times missing. Very strange. Don’t know what to chalk that one up to. Anyway, actually it wouldn’t have been a bad idea in my opinion, IF and only IF, that policy was in place from the very beginning that word got used. But if it isn’t in place now, it is a weird thing what happened with my post, when it came out of moderation. Oh well, I don’t intend to use that word again in my posts, so it is a moot point. Back to the regularly scheduled discussion, sorry if it got sidetracked a bit.

  6. GainesvilleResident

    MH – don’t waste any more time trying to figure out the latest quirky behavior of the moderation software. Being a software engineer, I’ve seen bizarre things happen. Maybe it is the software gods getting some kind of revenge on me. I’ll chalk it up to that. As for the other more technical thing in the past, you and I have talked about it via e-mail and I appreciate the apology on here. It was part of the tar and feathering I got for no good reason back then, and a deliberate attempt by someone to make it look like I was making posts under other id’s that I weren’t.

    Anyway, will close the subject, and again, don’t waste a lot of time investigating what I’ll term “the moderation software quirk”. Maybe it doesn’t like that word any more than I do, but I see it let you write the word out. I’m not going to tempt fate though!

  7. GainesvilleResident

    I will agree with this statement: Corey should be promoting positive aspects of the county and not bring up the resolution and attempt to link it to whatever he thinks are positives about it. Similarly, other people need to stop painting the county as a racist place, stop saying the resolution is the sole reason for the housing problem here, etc. I’ve seen posts to that effect and I think they are just as much hyperbole as the “other side” engages in. Those very same posters who complain about the other side’s hyperbole, throw out phrases like “the resolution is why PWC’s housing values decreased ‘X’ more than any other county” where X is some number they use, which may or may not even be factual. Again, I will not deny the resolution did not help housing values, but my observation in old neighborhood, following the foreclosures and short sales very closely for the past 12 months, doesn’t bear out anyone fleeing because of the resolution. Some of the flophouses remain, including the one next to my townhouse. I was fortunate in that the flophouse has its times where it is vacant, and that’s when the company managing my townhouse rental finally managed to rent it out. It was unrentable for 2 months thanks to the tenants in the house next to me. For a short time they cleared out, and someone rented my townhouse. Now, they are complaining about the house next to mine, but they are locked in to a 1 year lease, unfortunately for them. I obviously know they will not renew their lease. That is their bad misfortune, and i did not directly rent to them, the company that is handling my property as a rental did. Do I feel bad for them, sure, but I put up with it for 2 1/2 years. Also, I somewhat depend on that rental income to afford my house – otherwise if I had sold my old house I would be able to afford my new house. I either need rental income or to sell it, I can’t afford to have it vacant for too long. To say I was sweating it out a bit November and December before the house got rented was an understatement…. I again blame the people next to me, and no while community services will work for some problems houses, I do not believe they will work for this one. The occupants once openly defied the law by breaking into my house, which isn’t a neighborly thing to do. They still have junk sitting out on their deck, furniture that does not fit in the house because every floor looks to be used for sleeping. In the basement can be seen mattresses as during the day they have the curtains open sometimes and you can see into the basement window.

    Not a fun way to live I don’t think, but apparently they manage to get enough tenants there, as people come and go at all times day and night and from month to month the cast of characters changes. They throw garbage out front on non-collection days, including sometimes huge boxes and stuff and let them soak in the rain 2 days until the garbage truck comes by. Definitely unhealthy, and I didn’t like it being so near to my house where I had to walk near it from the walkway leading up to my front door. So would be nice if some neighborhood services organization helped, but don’t believe City of Manassas even has an analagous thing like that. Tried the Point of Woods HOA, but they were their usual useless selves. Their excuse was, this problem is all over the neighborhood, we can’t help you out or we’d have to help out everyone. Some excuse!

    Anyway, agreed that in general some of the problems may have been resolved by neighborhood services in the county – I understand there they will look for blighted properties and attempt to enforce zoning regulations (that is not leaving junk outside, etc.). And again, although I’ve said it before, agree not all overcrowded flophouses are filled with illegals. I only speak from knowing that at least at one moment in time, there were people who’s identity could not be confirmed, in the house next to me. Those people are not there now, have no idea the status of the current tenants other than apparently, from what I hear from the people renting my townhouse, they are just as bad as always. It falls under the category of, all flophouses are bad, no matter who lives in them. Anytime you have 10 people crowding into a townhouse, working different jobs different hours of the day and night (I guess), it spells trouble. Back when the city cared about overcrowding, I complained, they investigated and at that time they found 11 people living there, of which only 2 were related. 11 people in a 3 bedroom townhouse is kind of ridiculous! That time it cleared out, only to get back to the same way a few months later. Eventually the city stopped taking complaints, even when you used your name (I never went the anonymous route – I wanted my complain “on the record” so to speak).

  8. GainesvilleResident

    Oops – last post in moderation, did not use or even refer to that word I was suspicious was making it go that way. Guess the software is acting up again, like it did a few weeks ago. Can’t see anything at all in my very last post that would put it in moderation. Oh well, not a big deal. The moderation software is a bit out to lunch.

  9. Moon-howler

    How can the city just stop taking complaints?

  10. Moon-howler

    Gainesville, has Point of Woods HOA always been whimpy or just in the past few years? My daughter lives in a townhouse community in the county but western end. They have always been….sigh…Nazis over there. They get you and fine you for every violation under the sun and the Nazi towing company hauls your car away if you park in guest parking 3 nights in a row.

    On the other hand, the vigilance they show there has kept things from getting out of hand. I think the parking situation keeps the overcrowding down.

  11. Gainesville Resident, do you actually know of someone who believes the Immigration Resolution is the sole reason for the collapse of our county’s housing market? Such an assertion would be very easy for you or I to debunk if we encountered it, but if we did so, we would accomplish little and distinguish ourselves less.

    If you agree with me, as you say, that the Resolution has compounded the housing crisis here, why do you object to numerical comparisons that show our county’s housing market has suffered a steeper decline than that of our neighbors? Are you simply trying to maintain a balanced point of view?

    The economic impact of the Resolution is just one of the realities that Corey Stewart and Greg Letiecq ignore in their self-promotion campaigns. I feel that both of them represent our county poorly … in their personal comportment, in their obsession with divisive social issues, and in their deliberate distortion of the facts.

    Unlike Mr. Stewart, I do not have the luxury of going on television with a list of questions I wish to be asked by a vapid newscaster. This blog is a way for me to voice my opposition when he, or Mr. Letiecq, misrepresents my county.

    If you object to both the point and the counter point, I hope and suggest you bring it up with Mr. Letiecq and Mr. Stewart. Without them, the counterpoints made here would not be necessary.

  12. Thumper

    Heh heh.

    We used to call the HOA stool pigeons lawn Nazis.

  13. Chris

    Please, have the admin give you my contact information. I want to discuss Point of Woods privately. I have some information that might help you out.

  14. Gainesville Resident

    Thanks Chris, have been passed info by the admin and will contact you later today probably by e-mail with more details. Will also be glad to talk by phone if needed. Have not seen the place since January though, but assume some things are still not good there.

    WHWN – I saw it posted on this very blog several times by several posters. They stated it as fact that the resolution was the sole reason for the housing crisis in PWC. Yes, I agree, easily debunked, but at the time it wasn’t really here on anti – or maybe just mildly so, and same posters would repost that same phrase a week or two later. I don’t know anyone personally, only saw that said here on this blog by a subset of posters. I could search for the posts, but not worth the time nor the energy. OThers can do so if they wish, the evidence would be here in the archives.

    I’m too tired to debate you (WHWN) further on the numerical comparison stuff – I debated that on here a few weeks ago. Right now I’m jet lagged and don’t have the energy.

  15. Gainesville Resident

    MH – Point of Woods HOA is inconsistent. They rant and rave about garbage being left out on non-garbage days in their newsletter, but when I pestered them about my next door neighbors who did that all the time (including putting out huge TV/VCR bookcase thingy the day after garbage day – partially on my front lawn), the HOA did nothing. Same with parking, they once towed my brand new car 2 days after I bought it because did not have city sticker (duh, not required to put city sticker on for 15 days or so). Never backed down from that one, made me pay $150 towing fee to ripoff towing company. Made me SUPER ANGRY. My neighbors, they could park 4 cars in the lot, I’d complain, they never got towed. Once towing company did come, they came running out, towing company didn’t tow their cars and they continued to park there. Now you see why I saw Point of Woods HOA inconsistent. My wife freaked out when our brand new car was towed 2 years ago. It still makes me mad to this day, what kind of rule is that? Buy a new car, have TEMPORARY TAGS on it, and they say it requires city sticker. They just had it in for my Toyota Prius, I think. Never proved it, but suspected it to be so. Think they drive SUV’s or some such thing and didn’t like seeing a brand new Prius in the lot, so had it towed. No other motive I could think of, as I hadn’t really contacted them at that point so wouldn’t have pissed them off some other way.

    Ah, such are the “good old days” at Point of Woods. What pleasant memories!!

  16. Gainesville Resident

    Should say the garbage thing, when you have a house that has 10+ residents, LOTS of garbage is generated. Probably no room to store such garbage, so obviously toss it out in the front lawn in garbage bags, boxes, whatever, starting the very next day after garbage collection.

    Haven’t been there since mid-January, so don’t know if it still is going on. That house goes through phases – once in a while it cleans itself out and is uninhabited for a month, then it is right back up there to 10+ residents! Seen that multiple times for the past 2-3 years.

    I used to complain on the record (not anonomously) to City of Manassas about that townhouse. A few times early on they cleared it out, but then got whimpy. They would investigate and tell me the details. After awhile, they said they’d investigate but never did, never got back to me, etc. Seem to have whimped out in the past 18 months roughly. Before that they were good and would give me details on how many persons, the fact that not one of them was related, etc. etc. Said contacted owner and told him not to rent it out to 10+ unrelated people. Owner of course gave the city the finger on that one as he would immediately rent it back out again. That happened 3 times, then after that city stopped really responding. They would as usual say they would investigate, but never did and never got back to me with report.

    Really don’t care too much any more about it, but upon MH’s urging will get in contact with Chris – even though not sure what it looks like now since haven’t seen it since January. Still have vested interest, as would like to unload my townhouse one of these days, so would like its value to increase. Although, I’d take $150K for it in a flash. Last year I thought that was a ridiculously low price – should have tried to sell it for that at the same time the two foreclosures sold across the street (one for $150K and one for $160K). Now I’d be lucky if I could get $100K for it, based on what I’ve seen watching house sales there. Although, some crazy person did list a few days ago a house like mine for sale for $150K in POW. Will keep an eye on that one, but expect sale price to be drastically lower. They are smoking something if they think it will sell for that price!

  17. Gainesville Resident

    By the way WHWN, stop putting words in my mouth. I did not really say the resolution compounded the hosuing crisis here. I said it might have affected it 5 or 10%. You have a knack for putting down what someone allegedly said or saying they will agree with you. I can speak quite well for myself, thank you very much.

  18. Gainesville Resident

    Also, I do not know Letiecq or Stewart. Never met them. Stop being presumptious! Maybe you did not mean to imply that, but your idea that I should directly contact Greg is facetious in the extreme. Are you trying to link me to bvbl as many posters tried early on when I came on here. I am my own person, I am not a member of bvbl or HSM, never been to their meetings, and never seen Greg or any supervisor in person. Only been a resident of PWC for 6 months, until recently could not name most of the supervisors.

    Sheesh! Can’t believe I have to rehash this again. I don’t like your sentence “If you object to both the point and the counter point, I hope and suggest you bring it up with Mr. Letiecq and Mr. Stewart”. May have been innocent, but for one thing, why should it be up to ME – I am not a politically activist type person, never been to a BOCS meeting NOR a City of Manassas meeting. I vote, but that’s it. Not everyone has the time or energy to directly e-mail supervisors. And why do you think I have some input to Greg. Don’t even know his e-mail address.

    Sorry, you may have meant that innocently, but for you to suggest I contact Greg – why don’t YOU contact him.

    That just stirred me up a bit, as others here have at one time suggested I was Greg (how STUPID of them), suggested I was an HSM member, etc. Maybe you aren’t, but I still have the wounds of posts from those posters on this blog. People made a lot of assumptions about me, most of which weren’t true. If they were wrong about me, could they possibly be wrong about other things they post vociferously about?

    To say I should contact Greg – that’s beyond the pale. Have you contacted him? I would not suggest to anyone to contact Greg (or Corey). It’s up to them.

  19. Gainesville Resident, I was not aware of your battle scars, nor did I mean to imply you are in close contact with Greg Letiecq or Corey Stewart. Each has renewed their self-promotion campaigns in recent days, and each has misrepresented our county in very dark and self-serving ways. My aim was to point out that this blog’s response to their dissembling would not be necessary if there were no dissembling.

    Both Letiecq and Stewart do not want to be held accountable for their actions. But to allow them to skew, revise, and obscure their own records would be, in many ways, an abdication of our civic duty. A misinformed public is an affront to the democratic process. Elected officials should be judged on their records, not on unchallenged, unvetted, and unsubstantiated claims.

    But please understand, the sharpness in my words is NOT directed at you. In fact, I only addressed you because you have been insightful and prolific on this thread.

    If there were no exuberant and self-congratulation from Stewart and Letiecq about having 600 less ESOL students (or whatever the claim was), then no one would have to point out that making families disappear has economic consequences, particularly with regard to the housing market.

    If there were no slanderous charges made against our Chief of Police, there would be no need to defend him from those charges.

    If F.A.I.R.’s cookie cutter “WHEREAS clauses” hadn’t made the inaccurate and incendiary assertion that people who are perceived undocumented immigrants have brought “economic hardship” to our county, it would not be necessary to say that their remedy for this was a very expensive, legally dubious Immigration Resolution … that has compounded and deepened the effects of the housing crisis and the recession (two matters our government might have planned for instead of planning for civil rights lawsuits and the 2008 presidential election).

    If F.A.I.R.’s cookie cutter “WHEREAS clauses” hadn’t made the inaccurate and incendiary assertion that people who are perceived undocumented immigrants have brought “lawlessness” to our county, it would not be necessary to point out that crime has gone UP in the first year that the Resolution has been in place.

    Mr. Stewart and Mr. Letiecq’s skewed and myopic manipulation of crime statistics are intended to imply that F.A.I.R.’s “WHEREAS clause” claims were accurate, when in fact the anti-immigration lobbying firm made only one visit to Prince William County before inserting their prefabricated generalizations into Supervisor Stirrup’s resolution.

    Each lie told by Stewart and Letiecq is an attempt to prove assumptions that should never have been made … and we certainly should never have taken such a radical, costly, and unproven approach to neighborhood issues without having researched whether the was cause to do so. A prefabricated list of claims is not cause to remake a government.

  20. Moon-howler

    Gainesville, I would be real tempted to take that $150 bucks out of next next HOA dues and dare them to do something. That towing company operated on the cusp of the law. They do the same thing over in the county. However, the associations allow it. They allow it so they should bear the brunt when that towing company (who often appears in the paper for abuses) screws up.

    They nailed my daughter like that the day she moved in for being in the wrong spot. I went down there and fought with them and I thought they were going to break my knee caps. Definitely abuse!! Take back your money! Reclaim!

    Point of Woods doesn’t do jack about the garbage and trash being out on the wrong day. I drove through there every single day. They know it is out there. Spilled garbage, furniture, vegetation, TVs, etc. There is no pick up on Saturday, yet someone just hauls it out there. Why don’t they get a friend who lives in the county and just go scab and take it to the county landfill.

    Where do people who live in the city take their trash if they have something big? Can they pay to use our landfill?

  21. Witness Too

    @WHWN said:

    Both Letiecq and Stewart do not want to be held accountable for their actions. But to allow them to skew, revise, and obscure their own records would be, in many ways, an abdication of our civic duty. A misinformed public is an affront to the democratic process. Elected officials should be judged on their records, not on unchallenged, unvetted, and unsubstantiated claims.

    Excellent points WHWN, but you did not respond to Gainesville Resident’s other concern, which is a valid concern. Our county’s reputation was harmed by the rash of anti-immigrant rhetoric and its intrusion into our political process, but it is also still being harmed by our continued infighting about whether “probable cause” was racial profiling, or whether racism played a part in the policy’s writing.

    Some might prefer to forgive and forget. But, given that Mr. Letiecq and Mr. Stewart continue to trumpet the “success” of this policy (with or without “probable cause”) I see our choice as a choice of lesser evils.

    You say it is our civic duty to point out the economic consequences of the Immigration Resolution. Well, then it should also be our duty to point out the social consequences. If and when a policy creates the perception of institutionalized racism, it is our duty to speak up. It may be grating for some of us to hear, and it may even create an angry backlash, but if we fail to hold our leaders accountable when they put us in danger of earning a reputation for institutionalized racism, then we are not only abdicating our responsibility, we are also consenting to and perpetuating that reputation.

    As long as Corey Stewart is our chairman, and as long as he and Greg Letiecq are tag-teaming as Prince William County’s poster boys, it will be our job to say no, they are not our poster boys. They are only two people out of 400,000, and do not represent how all of us feel.

  22. GainesvilleResident

    OK WHWN, I’ll accept your explanation. Sorry if I flew off the handle a bit but way back on here I was accused of being a member of HSM, etc. etc.

    Moon Howler – thanks for adding in your observations about Point of Woods. They are very correct and not at all an exaggeration. Point of Woods was an embarrasment to me – and I was ashamed to live there the last 2 or 3 years. Glad I’m out of there. I lived there for 25 years by the way – buying my townhouse new there in February 1983 (actually it was one of the models, so was really built in 1980 I believe). Used to be a great neighborhood at that time, considered by many in the early 80’s to be a really prime neighborhood in the city. Not any more.

  23. GainesvilleResident

    MH – I did withhold $150 back then from my HOA dues, and all it got me was late fees, etc. Should have hired a lawyer, but never used a lawyer and really wasn’t up to the fight. I don’t believe in tilting windmills, and that was a bit like it. I did argue with the HOA a bit but it got me nowhere. In the end, that $150 ended up being $200 after late fees. Oh well. That was 3 years ago actually – I bought my car in February 2006.

  24. GainesvilleResident

    MH – I’ve seen old TV’s out there too in Point of Woods. At the time my neighbors dumped that TV/Stereo entertainment center out there, on another street was a dumpy old TV set. So, I thought to myself, too bad they weren’t together or it would have been a matching set!

    The best was one time someone dumped an old refrigerator in the woods behind my townhouse. Sat there for a week or two before someone finally hauled the thing away. Supposedly, the HOA was trying to run the serial numbers on it and try to trace back the warranty info to see who dumped it. Never heard if they succeded or not. Was right in the woods directly behind the end unit of my row of townhouses. But those woods are a dumping ground! Anyone can take a walk there – on the pavement leading down to Stonewall Park, on the left side as you go down there and see all sorts of junk tossed in those woods – it is disgusting. Big garbage bags full of junk. I don’t get it – isn’t it more effort to take a garbage bag down there in your car or whatever instead of setting it out for trash? The logic still escapes me to this day. Also of course are beer bottles, boxes of food, and so on. Disgusting. Another reason I’m glad to be gone there – walking my dog was a challenge – to keep her from picking up bits of trash, stepping around tons of broken glass, etc. etc. Made going for walks with the dog not fun the last few years I was there, and I really enjoy taking my dog for walks otherwise.

  25. GainesvilleResident

    MH – not sure about the landfill, but the City did have quarterly times where you could take stuff like TV sets or other “hazardous waste disposal stuff” and dump it there. I did that with old bad computer monitors and such from time to time. Don’t know anything about county landfill – that is if city residents can use it. Probably not, but could be wrong.

  26. GainesvilleResident

    One last thing – the HOA posts in the monthly or quarterly newsletter about not putting out garbage on non-garbage days and threatens to fine you. I think they are all talk and no action. Doesn’t seem to make a dent in the problem and the same houses are habitual offenders. HOA all talk no action on the garbage issue.

  27. Moon-howler

    It sure doesn’t look like they fine very much. I went through there this afternoon. Not too bad for once, but it is also Friday. I bet I couldn’t say that tomorrow.

    Some of Point of Woods’ problem is that it is an older townhouse community. That happened to Georgetown South, Irongate, Point of Woods, and other places. They start off as nice communitites and as the owner to renter ratio gets unbalanced, so goes the neighborhood.

  28. michael

    I’m really too tired to go back and rebute each of the comments Elena, and Moon have posted and asked me. So forgive me if I do not answer. I did an analysis on the improper use of crime statistics and yes moon, I did read the police report, and yes I could find a statistic that showed both a 50% increase in violant crime and a 40% drop in violant crime, both numbers depending on what type of math you used and from what category you made the claim.

    My point of all of this is simple. Every “illegal” immigrant in this country has broken a law. Every ACT that ANY illegal immigrant has taken that negatively impacts a legitimate US Citizen, is an act that should not be allowed to happen, can be prevented by deportation and can be removed as a component of EVERYTHING NEGATIVE that we as a country deal with today, by reducing the impact on every “individual” in this nation that has been and is negatively affected by 12 million “illegal” people. The math here is simple, every crime one of these 12 million people commit, is a crime that will not happen if they are deported and a drop in the percentage contribution to crimes they commit. Every mortgage they hold illegally and default on is one less mortgage they can impact the community with if they are deported. Every person who is infected with a virus or bacteria they bring into the country as they travel back and forth between home and the US, is one less infection that a person who lives here legally has to endure if they are deported. Every person robbed or killed by an illegal immigrant is one less person that has to die or suffer personal damage if they are deported. Every garbage can they leave in the street is one less garbage can or mattress dumped, or trash left on the street, or junk car parked in the street to cause transportation problems. Every car they drive is one less car causing transportation congestion if they are deported. Every person living in a house next door illegally is one less crowded home, one less home impacted by people coming and going at all hours of the day or night, one less homeowner impacted by constant strangers moving in and out of the neighborhood in search of temporary work and one less mortgage foreclosure and one less home which loses its value because it has not been taken care of, is overcrowded or causes community decay if the individuals in those homes are deported. Every child in school that is denied grant money or lunch money or money for books or money for health care, because it is also given to 12 million illegal immigrants and their families, leaving far less money to go around to those who are legitimately allowed to be in the country, is one more dollar per child that can be spend if 12 million people are deported. Every fraud committed or every social security number stolen, every ID cloned and every credit report ruined by an illegal immigrant is one less ruined individual, adult or child if they are deported. Every single illegal immigrant that cannot speak english is one less person insisting on dual, or multiple language requirements, and one less individual contributing to misunderstanding and language confusion if they are deported. Every illegal immigrant that is involved in politics, involved in special interest groups, involved in voter fraud, involved in impacting and changing community social life, involved in causing community unrest, involved in active racisim, involved in promoting socialism, involved in promoting militant groups, or militant gangs, or foreign mafias is one less individual causing social unrest and destructive subversion of our society and American value system if they are deported. Every illegal immigrant that has a job here is one less job for a legitimate citizen, and every illegal immigrant that works for less than 7.25 per hour, and every employer willing to exploit illegal immgrants by paying less than 7.25 per hour (as of 24 Jul 2009) is one less exploited worker, and one more highly paid worker that business owners must pay to raise the community standard of living if they are deported. Every illegal immigrant who lives below the poverty level, that brings poverty into our communities, and that lives off of our tax dollars, is one less tax dollar we have to pay, one less impoverished family we have to support and one less poverty statistic we have to put up with that reduces our standard of living, and with that increased crime in our cities because of increased poverty.

    I could go on and on how “illegal” immigrants violate by civil liberties by advocating against my “democracy”, contributing to my nation’s racism (by hiring, caring for, and politically advocating ONLY for their own ethnic group), while denying me and my family rights to equal treatment as INDIVIDUALS, under the law, and by violating “rule of law” to my and my family’s detriment, reducing my ability to reduce my taxes, decrease my income, get my children the government and community support they deserve for education, and lower the value of my home, and lower my community standard of living it THEY REMAIN AND ARE NOT DEPORTED.

    EVERY SINGLE ONE of them affects EVERY SINGLE ONE of us.

    See the math is SIMPLE.

  29. GainesvilleResident

    MH- agreed about renter ratios to owner living in house ratios causing problems. You are right about POW in that regard. Now I’m contributing to it sort of since my property is now a rental property! Really though, would prefer it not to be, still think in a year or two will sell it. Last year, didn’t think for one thing could sell it before new house was finished and ready for move-in. That, more than the price, was the prime reason I just went with the “24 month guaranteed rent” deal with the builder. Sounded like an easy way out at the time. Not without issues though – but still, less aggravating then putting house up for sale and worrying whether it would be sold in time for new house move-in. Couldn’t afford new house without either selling old house or renting it out.

  30. GainesvilleResident

    Also, yes unfortunately as much as i hate to say it, Point of Woods is going like Georgetown South did. I don’t know Irongate, so can’t speak to that. But know of Georgetown South and its problems, being a City of Manassas resident for 25 years. Hate to see Point of Woods become a Georgetown South, but definitely it is trending that way. Would be nice for it to turn around, but that is going to take a lot of work, not sure it is really possible. Georgetown South has supposedly improved from its lowest point, but I only know what I read in newspapers, which I don’t always trust. Only have seen Georgetown South from Rt. 234 Business, so don’t know it that well as never driven inside it.

  31. Moon-howler

    Point of Woods actually remained a nice community for a long time. Back in the day, Georgetown South was a model community. When I first came to the county I was very jealous of those who lived there. Of course I lived in Colonial Village. Groan.

    Where is Poor Richard when we need him? When was that community built? I have been told that the actual craftsmanship over there is exemplary. Poor Richard…..drum roll…..a little history please, on Georgetown South. Tell us of its humble beginnings.

  32. Moon-howler

    Perhaps I was a little rough on Corey for speaking positively about Prince William’s real estate growth. It has to start somewhere and if things are going great guns now, once the excessive inventory is off the market, perhaps our house values will improve.

    Here is an article about the local real estate market.

  33. GainesvilleResident

    I thought I read Georgetown South built in late 40’s early 50’s. Defer to Poor Richard who seems to be local history expert. I only came to live here in 1981. Don’t know much history before that but someplace I thought I read that about Georgetown South. I’m sure when it was brand new it was indeed considered a model community. Most neighborhoods start out that way – don’t think too many start out bad as otherwise who would want to move there. Everything is nice when it is shiny new!

    Interesting article you posted on real estate market in PWC. Seems to confirm very recent trend I think I may have seen in Point of Woods prices. Of course, with prices so depressed, just like the stock market – has very far to go to bounce back. But if true, the fact that prices may be going up, however slightly, and sales happening faster, etc. is a good sign. Just like stock market seems to be somewhat turning around – last month very good one – although who knows if momentum will continue or some of recent gains will be lost in mini-correction.

    Thanks for posting article, seems to confirm what I thought I was seeing – I’ve been keeping eye on housing prices both at Point of Woods and my new neighborhood in Gainesville. This neighborhood 3 1/2 years old now, so enough houses on market here (some foreclosures, some regular sales) to see trends here too. Kind of like following stock market for me, have become engrossed in watching housing prices for two neighborhoods I own property in. I like numbers so it is interesting to me to watch the ups and downs.

  34. GainesvilleResident

    Being bored and resting before go out to cut grass – I did a quicky search on Georgetown South and turned this up –

    Interesting stuff, and MAY have answers to question of when it was built. I say MAY, because pictures of some newspaper articles – need to blow them up, or at least my “old” eyes print too small too read. Anyway, tells about “expert craftmanship”. Sounds like you were right on that one MH. Interesting page to view! Had a hunch might turn up something out there in google search – popped up near the top actually, surprisingly.

  35. Chris

    The first section of Georgetown South was started in fall of 1962, and the last section was started fall of 1967. Georgetown South was “the place” to live when it was built. During this time IBM had opened in Manassas, and many employees lived in Georgetown South. They are some of the few townhouse that are all brick. Georgetown South started going down hill about 1979. I hope this will suffice in Poor Richard’s absence.
    Hopefully he will come along and elaborate. 🙂

    Poor Richard and my mom are local historians in their own rights.

  36. GainesvilleResident

    Thanks Chris. I was certainly a bit off when I said 40’s and 50’s. Oh well, shows you what I knew about it. IBM opened in Manassas in 1969 or 1970. I know that as remember colleagues who were first people to work in Manassas – first IBM had rented office space on Sudley Road in that big ugly black 6 or 7 story building across the street from Lomond Drive roughly – near Dudley Martin Chevrolet. When I was there IBM still had space in that building – was where they broadcasted University of Maryland classes so we could pursue Master’s degrees. Do remember by the time i moved here in 1981, Georgetown South was already not considered such a great area. At that time Point of Woods considered very nice area, many people I worked with lived there. Did not know anyone living in Georgetown South, not to say that even then, in 1981, there were still some IBM’ers there.

    Interesting Manassas history being discussed here, I really thought GS was built in 40’s and 50’s. Oh well.

  37. Moon-howler

    I thought it was built in the early 60s for some reason. I think it started going south before 1979. When did Manassas go City? It was not the greatest place to live when that happened. Irongate quickly followed suit. In fact, it turned horrible over the summer that the City became a city.

  38. Gainesville Resident

    I think Manassas went city sometime early to mid 70’s. Certainly was by time I moved here in ’81. As I’ve already proven though on this thread, I’m not much of a local historian so will defer to others who know it more accurately! Wonder how that all worked out why it was being done – separation of schools, police services, etc. Must have been an interesting time…

  39. Gainesville Resident

    Meant to say “Wonder how that all worked out WHILE it was being done” – otherwise sentence is confusing. Not sure how I did that typo.

  40. You Wish

    GR and MH – my parents raised us in Manssass Park (off Compton Road in the townhouses there by the elementary school) from 1977 – 1981. At that time, Georgetown South was (believe it or not) “the” place to live in Manassas City. My parents tried to get in there but couldn’t afford to living off of 2 teachers salaries (my dad earned $5000 a year – big bucks!). They bought their little 2 level townhouse for around $29k and thought they were living large in Manassas Park 🙂

    And don’t hold those HOA fees. Our HOA states that if you are in arrears, they can put a lien on your house if you try to sell. We are getting ready to sell (fingers triple crossed – we’re near Quantico and hoping that upcoming 5 year ship in/ship out will help us) and have always paid our HOA, even though it’s a joke. There are several houses that haven’t paid in YEARS and still get trash pickup/recycling/snow removal.

  41. You Wish

    Opps – just read Chris’s comment about GS being “the place” to live.

  42. GainesvilleResident

    You Wish – that’s right about HOA fees, I know Point of Woods HOA can put a lien on your property if you fall too far in arrears. They also will allegedly take away your numbered parking space. At least that’s what the claim. In City of Manassas trash pickup/recycling is paid as part of electric/water bill, I know it is different in the county, as now that I moved it is part of the HOA dues. Manassas City was one stop shopping for electric, water, and trash – all in one bill paid to the city. Now have a bunch of different bills, including separate one for gas – my townhouse was all electric with a heat pump which I hated.

    Good luck with your house sale. I’d like to think in 2 years maybe might unload townhouse in Point of Woods but that may be optimistic. If I could get $150K for it I’d be happy, right now I’d be lucky to get $100K I think, which still would be slight profit over what I bought it for way back in 1983 (paid $80K for it).

  43. Chris

    You Wish,
    My goodness, what jurisdiction were they only paying $5K per year in the mid ’70’s for teachers?

  44. Gainesville Resident

    I wondered that one too Chris – $5K in the 70’s sounds very low indeed. I know teachers never have been paid well enough for the very hard job they do, but that seems really low unless it was early 70’s. Only reference I have is that my starting salary as a junior level electrical engineer at IBM in 1981 was $23K. So $5K sounds absymall, to put it mildly, although inflation was high in late 70’s I think, so maybe if early 70’s might not be as bad as it sounds. Still, even in early 70’s think $5K is pretty low salary.

  45. Gainesville Resident

    Oops see it was in “mid 70’s”. Still sounds bad, even with high inflation in late 70’s, that had to be an abysmally low salary. Even today, I don’t think many teachers get paid what they deserve.

  46. You Wish

    It was (ready for this?) FAIRFAX COUNTY!! He started teaching there in 1971. It might have been close to $7000. I can hardly imagine living off that with 2 small children. Believe me, he reminds me of it (I’m teaching in Fairfax) all the time.

    Our HOA covers the “pool” (a tiny little thing for over 300 townhouses), trash/recycling,snow removal and upkeep of the common areas. $83 a month.

    We probably going to have to short sale our townhouse due to the lack of sales in our area. We’ve outgrown it. Although a friend of mine just listed his townhouse in Gainesville (near Heritage Hunt) and had 4 offers within 12 hours. We’ve found that the short sales and foreclosures are being snapped up quickly, because finally families can afford to have a house. All of the houses we’ve looked at have had contracts submitted on them within 24 hours. We’re expanding our search to Loudoun to see what we can get within a decent price range.

  47. Gainesville Resident

    Wow, thanks for the interesting info You WIsh. Yes indeed, hard to imagine supporting a family on that, even back in 1971. I know there was rampant inflation in the late 70’s, but still, that does not sound like a great salary for the 1971.

    POW does not have pool, so HOA dues are only $110 per quarter. New neighborhood HOA, which covers fairly large pool, snow removal, common area maintenance – of which there are many including island in the middle of “circle” I live on, trash/recycling, PLUS Comcast high speed internet and cable TV, is $150/month roughly! But $68.11 of it is supposed to be for cable and high speed internet, so that makes it actually fairly comparable to your townhouse HOA (which tells me you townhouse HOA is a bit overpriced!).

    Sorry to hear you have to short sale your townhouse, but even my new neighborhood has a bunch of short sales going on currently. As it seems you must have found out, very few non-short sales or non-foreclosures on market, so short sales/foreclosures have “defined” the market and you have to price accordingly, unfortunately.

    You are right, the market is picking up on short sales/foreclosures – I’ve heard the same thing from a few real estate people, the ones in good condition are going fast. There is one expensive expensive home (down at the super fancy end of my neighborhood) that is a foreclosure that has been vacant a long time, think maybe it is not in good shape inside. It probably was bought for $1 million 3 years ago, judging from the size of the thing. It has been sitting in foreclosure since I moved in 6 months ago. Forget what it is going for – somewhere around $500K I think. Huge house, probably 4000 square feet above ground. That’s at the “super rich” end of neighborhood, and built by different builder than the one who built my house and majority of houses in neighborhood. Don’t know who lived there of course, but someone probably got in over their heads with this humungous house and mortgage, is my guess.

    Well, good luck with your house sale and house hunting.

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