I had heard about this but just saw the video and thought I’d share it. I don’t know anything about Mancow, other than I think he’s a shock jock. So, I don’t really know if I should take him seriously or not. Wasn’t there some discussion of a Keith Olberman Sean Hannity Waterboarding, but I don’t know if anything came of it.

86 Thoughts to “Mancow Waterboarding Video”

  1. Emma

    Witness Too, you’re still on the Cheney-is-God thing, with the stupidly hapless Democrats only going along for the ride out of fear for their political futures. Despite her pathetic, lying CYA attempts, Nancy Pelosi was fully briefed on waterboarding and felt that more should be done.

    If she is nothing more than a Cheney puppet, as you allege all the other Democrats are who voted for the war, then she should resign immediately. We don’t need that kind of spineless incompetence in our leadership

  2. Moon-howler

    Emma, I agree with you on this one. I don’t think torture should be routine but I sure don’t want our hands tied if something unforeseen happens. My idealism has sort of dwindled down to nothing when dealing with dirtbags. re: moving heaven and earth to save your kid.

  3. Witness Too

    Emma, I hope you realize that Nancy Pelosi is just another person you’re supposed to focus your frustration upon. There is no end game here. Pelosi is not vulnerable in 2010. She won’t step down. This is just another way to distract you from learning any meaningful or factual information that could broaden your perspective, and thus potentially cause you to rethink your positions.

    Cheney is no “god” as far as I am concerned. He did usurp the powers of the President. That is not in question, I hope you realize. I do have a great deal of sympathy for him. He was simply an oil man / war profiteer when he became VP. He left the White House as a notorious war criminal. He lost his composure, he lost his courage, and he endangered America with the decisions he made and/or forced Bush to make. He can’t admit it. And he needs support from people who are willing to focus their minds on very small things in order to avoid the big picture. I’m glad he has a support group, and also glad there is little more he can do to harm our country.

  4. Moon-howler

    But what was Dick Cheney before he became an oil man or a Halliburton big shot? Could it be……Secretary of Defense under Bush the first?

    He is who he is. I don’t think he is a war criminal. I just have very little regard for him.

  5. Witness Too


    You and I are both the type to take the middle ground whenever possible. I like that about you, but here I would suggest there is no middle ground on the definition of war crimes. Consider the view of Gen. Petraeus:


    We are in the process of redefining America in the wake of the Bush administration. I suppose one of the things we could do is redefine America to say that we no longer are a nation that abides by the treaties we sign, and we no longer believe in the Geneva Conventions.

    For me, this is very difficult to do. For me, the middle ground is to say that yes, Cheney committed these crimes (this is not hard because Cheney admits to it quite often and on television) but we should not prosecute him because it would not benefit the nation (as I said above).

    If we admit Cheney is guilty, we all are guilty to some degree. This I’m prepared to accept. But I can’t just tell myself “it didn’t happen” or “it did happen but who needs the Geneva Conventions if you’re the largest military power in the world.” Also, I can’t accept the idea that terror as a tactic should frighten us away from our values as human beings and as Americans. It is one thing to break a law. It is another thing to say that law no longer applies.

  6. Emma

    Witness Too, feel free to take on the collective guilt you keep harping on. I simply will not, because it is all to easy to sit back in the comfort of your home and Monday-morning-quarterback every decision that was made during the Bush years. It seems that your arguments are repetitive and have taken on a very narrow scope, all funneling towards the evil Dick Cheney. I’m sorry, but if the Democrats in office at the time were so weak and helpless, then they are simply imcompetent and motivated by nothing more than self-preservation. And we will soon see the results of their own self-interest as they spend our country into oblivion in an effort to pay off all their supporters. What is the GM bailout except a grand attempt to pay off the UAW, which supported the President handsomely? And yesterday we get the big-lie headline that somehow it will all be magically recouped in 5 years. You thought Cheney took advantage of the stupid and weak? These people have that game down to a science now.

    If you want to compare them to the Republicans and constantly say, “Well, what about what Cheney did” then I suppose those who are in power have absolutely no moral high ground to stand upon. By your book, they are really no different.

  7. Emma

    And I’m still trying to get my head around the absurdly simplistic logic that says that the only true free thinkers are the ones who agree with this adminstrations’ actions, and any opponents are simply being manipulated.

  8. Moon-howler

    I am trying to wrap my head around the idea that war crimes are clearly defined. I believe that the concept of ‘war crime’ is probably as blurred of a notion as it gets. What side one is on has a great deal to do with it.

    Some acts are clearer than others. I just finished rewatching Band of Brothers. That series certainly reinforces that there are no easy answers.

  9. Moon-howler

    Not fake, Joseph.

  10. Rick Bentley

    “If my child were being threatened with dull-blade beheading like Daniel Pearl, I would stop at nothing to save him or her.”

    Nothing? Genocide?

  11. Emma

    False argument, Rick. I doubt in an imminent-danger situation it would be expedient, effective or in any way reasonable to try to wipe out an entire group of people. Ask yourself what you would want done if your wife were being held at knifepoint, and the government had someone in custody who knew her whereabouts. Do you really want all possible options closed off even for the most extreme circumstances? Then how would you sleep at night knowing that she had to die for your ideals?

  12. Rick Bentley

    “I doubt in an imminent-danger situation it would be expedient, effective or in any way reasonable to try to wipe out an entire group of people.”

    Fair enough, but … why would you imagine that waterboarding will yield meaningful results? Because Dick Cheney says so? He also used the power of office to sell us on Iraq having WMD and presenting imminent threat. Discarding Cheney’s intimations, who else has ever claimed that the technique has been useful or is likely to be useful?

    It has now been asserted that the waterboaring was used mostly to make the (non-existent) connections between Iraq and Al Quaida, not to fight terrorism per se. So if that’s true it becomes more evident that the technique yields bad intel.

    Of course for all we know Cheney thinks it’s good intel and that Iraq did have WMD and that Sadaam Hussien WAS involved with Al Quaida. I don’t remember Cheney ever having the decency to admit that this was wrong.

  13. Rick Bentley

    See, I don’t much care about the human rights of these guys, or whether they get waterboarded. But I recognize a specious line of reasoning and a known liar when I see him. We should be arguing about something more real.

  14. Emma

    Sorry, but I categorically reject the oft-expressed notion here that the sh!t-for-brains sheeple, including Nancy Pelosi and any other Democrat who at least originally supported the war effort and were briefed on waterboarding, were all under the irresistable spell of Dick “Dr. Strangelove” Cheney. I can’t stand Pelosi, but I do give her credit for being a little more calculating than that.

    Unfortunately, President Obama does not have the intellectual integrity to declassify documents that might show whether Cheney is full of it or not. What is he afraid of?

  15. Witness Too

    Rick Bentley said:

    It has now been asserted that the waterboaring was used mostly to make the (non-existent) connections between Iraq and Al Quaida, not to fight terrorism per se. So if that’s true it becomes more evident that the technique yields bad intel.

    This is the most horrific thing I could imagine. Some how the “war on terror” became more of a White House sell-job to frighten and mislead the American people, and less of an effort to protect us. The thought of people being tortured in the name of our flag is bad enough. But if it’s true that the MOTIVE was to justify a lie, then Cheney is worse than a war criminal. I don’t know what it is.

    I swear, when Cheney was chosen as running mate, I thought it was a good idea. I did not know that Cheney was plotting to invade Iraq even back in the 1990’s. I guess I can blame myself for that. But the worst part, the horrific part, is how Cheney melted down after 9/11. He lost all composure and became a madman. He overran the President. He circumvented the President. He directed intelligence to go to his office and NOT to the President’s office. He bullied the CIA into agreeing to lies being put in Bush’s speeches, and then even snuck lies back into speeches after the lies had been removed.

    And now this. Torturing people so as to justify the lies he had already told the American people on Meet the Press. I don’t know what could be worse than this. I wish it were not true, but it certainly looks as if this was the aim because Cheney gave the order to torture Iraqi prisoners who couldn’t possibly have known anything about imminent attacks in the U.S.

  16. Emma

    Good grief.

  17. Elena

    “good grief” ? What do you mean Emma?

    How about this op ed from Richard Clark?

    “I’ll freely admit that watching a coordinated, devastating attack on our country from an underground bunker at the White House can affect how you view your responsibilities,” Cheney said in his recent speech. But this defense does not stand up. The Bush administration’s response actually undermined the principles and values America has always stood for in the world, values that should have survived this traumatic event. The White House thought that 9/11 changed everything. It may have changed many things, but it did not change the Constitution, which the vice president, the national security adviser and all of us who were in the White House that tragic day had pledged to protect and preserve. ”


  18. Emma

    It’s an opinion piece, Elena. And some of the Constitutional “outrages” Clark cites, such as wiretapping, have been upheld in court and are still being done under President Obama’s watch (and were started under President Clinton, not Bush). Do you have any concerns that the President continues to circumvent the Constitution?

  19. Emma

    Apparently not. I guess the actual facts would contradict the “evil-all-powerful-madman-Cheney-and-his-happless-Democratic-puppets lie that keeps getting repeated here.

  20. Moon-howler

    Unfortunately, President Obama does not have the intellectual integrity to declassify documents that might show whether Cheney is full of it or not. What is he afraid of?

    That is just a shotgun blast, Emma, and it is without substantiation. Perhaps he doesn’t want to further stir up the wrath of other countries.

    That is rather harsh speech about a sitting president. You don’t like him do you? Did your party put up a more competent candidate? Probably best to get used to the fact that he is president.

  21. Rick Bentley

    “Unfortunately, President Obama does not have the intellectual integrity to declassify documents that might show whether Cheney is full of it or not.”

    A. That could yet happen
    B. Even if it doesn’t there might be valid reasons not to
    C. You made a real mistake there, you used the word “Cheney” in the same sentence as the phrase “intellectual integrity”.

  22. Rick Bentley

    That Richard Clarke op-ed is really worth a read. We all should remember that much of what we see and hear is all about politics, not national security.

    Clarke, who worked as a foremost national security professional and who more or less sacrificed his career for principle, is a patriot not a politician, and is worth listening to.

  23. Witness Too

    Elena, thank you for sharing that Outlook essay by Richard Clarke. I read his book, and I agree entirely with Rick about his patriotism coming before partisanship. It’s a whole different conversation if you have read accounts of what really happened inside the Cheney White House. Another book I recommend is “The One Percent Doctrine.” This refers to Cheney’s decree that evidence was no longer needed to justify policy decisions like invading other people’s countries. Suspicion was the only standard, even if it was only a one percent suspicion. This is how our government was run for many years.

  24. Rick Bentley

    By reckless imbeciles.

  25. Rick Bentley

    Who use Red Herring issues like “should Jack Bauer be allowed to torture” to throw the spotlight away from what’s real. What’s real is, the Iraq conflict was ill-conceived and ill-planned, we are by no means safer from it, National Security is a big joke, and we’re now hoping that our courts won’t make us release photos of our people raping prisoners.

  26. Rick Bentley

    Somehow “Obama’s a wimp” resonates better with some of the American public than reality does …

  27. Moon-howler

    Rick, I believe I am the one who brought up Jack Bauer. I certainly was not using him as reality, only saying that I had heightened awareness of evil in the world and why I didn’t want to paint myself in a corner legally about the use of torture.

    I don’t care if Jack Bauer tortures or not.

  28. Rick Bentley

    Beyond you, Moon-howler, a lot of people go to Jack Bauer when this issue comes up.

  29. Witness Too

    Rick, I’m not saying I disagree, but re. the interrogators who used rape, sexual torture, and other extreme measures not in the Army Field Manual: how do you think they knew that the lid to Pandora’s Box was off? These Justice Dept. memos authorizing these measures were referring to CIA secret prisons, not to military prisons as far as I know.

  30. Rick Bentley

    Ah, back on Cheney – he has JUST NOW admitted Sadaam had no connection to 9/11. Very big of him.

    Perhaps tomorrow he’s going to tell his adult children that Santa Claus is not real, as well.

    George Tenet is still alive, so I have a feeling we may be hearing more about this.


    “I do not believe and have never seen any evidence to confirm that [Hussein] was involved in 9/11. We had that reporting for a while, [but] eventually it turned out not to be true,” Cheney conceded.

    Cheney identified former CIA Director George Tenet as the “prime source of information” on the relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.

  31. Emma

    I heard Cheney’s book, “Mind Control in Nine Easy Steps” has already sold 6 million advance copies on Amazon.com.

  32. Rick Bentley

    And he’s starting the follow-up, “War Profiteering For Dummies”.

  33. Elena

    For anyone who has not read Richard Clark’s book, it is an amazing read. I agree Rick, Clark is a patriot, not a politican.

  34. Pat.Herve


    My point is that when you compare something like real torture to a tv show, you trivialize it – what Jack does on 24 is hardly torture. It may seem like torture, but those two minutes of tv is not how torture is carried out. If we as a nation endorse the torturing of held captives, how can we expect our soldiers to not be tortured (and have the respect of the world).

    Any person of any respect will recognize that water boarding is torture – a one time incident is not the torture part, it is the repetitive number of times that one is subject to the torture.

  35. Moon-howler

    Pat, waterboarding is either torture or it isn’t. I don’t think quantity vs quality is an issue here.

    Pat, since you want to keep beating the horse that I must live in a world where I don’t know the difference in real and fake torture, I do realize that 24 is just a TV show and that Jack Bauer isn’t really torturing the other actors. I also didn’t compare real torture to TV torture. It was the evil in the world… things that can happen…not the torture I was really talking about.

    I am not trivializing torture for goodness sake.

    I don’t know what your background is, but my real life experiences don’t bring me close at all to anything that remotely smacks of espionage, terror attacks, military action. Therefore, the closest I come to experiencing these things is through the media. The media might include IV shows or movies which might include Band of Brothers, Flags of our Fathers, Wind Talkers, The Unit, Full Metal Jacket…the list goes on. It also might include a TV show named 24 or the nightly news or old footage of 9-11. Because I watch these shows, which I realize are not real, other than actual footage, I have heightened awareness of some of the awful things in the world. If I didn’t watch some of these shows, perhaps I wouldn’t realize that people fired guns in conflict or that bullets are real.

    Sorry if my choice of examples offends you. Sorry if my personal life experiences don’t allow me to offer up REAL examples of torture.

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