At some point, we must acknoweldge the reality there are children in this country, without proper documentation, through no fault of their own, that have grown up as American as you and I. THIS is their home, this is their country, however, they came to be here, they have a dream, no different than my own children. How moral or ethicial is it to deny hard working bright kids a future? An educated population benefits us all!


One Dupont Circle NW, Washington, DC 20036-1193
Telephone: (202) 939-9355 • Fax: (202) 833-4762

July 1, 2009

The Honorable Nydia Velazquez The Honorable Charles Gonzalez
Chairwoman Vice Chairman
Congressional Hispanic Caucus Congressional Hispanic Caucus
2466 Rayburn House Office Building 303 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515 Washington, DC 20515

Re: S. 729/H.R. 1751, the DREAM Act

Dear Chairwoman Velazquez and Vice Chairman Gonzalez:

On behalf of the higher education associations listed below, I write in support of the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors or “DREAM” Act. The DREAM Act has been introduced in both the Senate and House as S. 729 and H.R. 1751, respectively, and we urge you to work to make this proposed legislation into law.


Increased access to higher education is a top priority for our associations and the institutions we represent. As the name of the legislation recognizes, higher education is essential to achieving the “American dream” that immigrants to this country have sought since the founding of the nation. The DREAM Act will remove barriers to higher education for thousands of young students who have grown up in this country, attended our schools, and have the desire and capacity to make vital contributions to the nation’s economic strength and security. For many of these students, the U.S. is the only country they have known, and we need them to contribute to our economy to the full extent of their abilities.

Access to in-state tuition is essential for these students, as is the path to legal status that the DREAM Act endorses. As the DREAM Act moves through the legislative process, we respectfully request that you also work to extend federal grant aid to DREAM Act-eligible students to remove another significant barrier to their higher education success.
We recognize that the debate over immigration is complex and evokes strong emotion. The DREAM Act, however, provides educational and career opportunities for young people, many of whom are in this country through decisions beyond their control, but have shown themselves exceptional members of our communities and exhibit exemplary academic achievement. It is truly in our best interest to ensure they have the opportunity to achieve their dreams and become part of the well-educated and competitive work force that our country needs today.
S. 729/H.R. 1751, the DREAM Act
July 1, 2009
Page 2
We strongly support the DREAM Act and look forward to working with you to ensure swift passage of this important legislation.
Molly Corbett Broad
On behalf of:
American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers
American Association of Community Colleges
American Association of State Colleges and Universities
American Association of University Professors
American College Personnel Association
American Council on Education
American Dental Education Association
American Indian Higher Education Consortium
APPA: Leadership in Educational Facilities
Association of American Colleges and Universities
Association of American Universities
Association of Community College Trustees
Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities
Association of Public and Land-grant Universities
Association of Research Libraries
College Board
Council for Christian Colleges and Universities
Council for Opportunity in Education
Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities
NAFSA: Association of International Educators
NASPA: Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education
National Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education
National Association of College and University Business Officers
National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities
National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators
National Collegiate Athletic Association
Thurgood Marshall College Fund
University Continuing Education Association
Women’s College Coalition

46 Thoughts to “Dare to Dream a Dream….universities and colleges support the Dream Act”

  1. Moon-howler

    This legislation will be harder to push through in a recession would be my guess. Many kids who had planned on going to 4 year college had to put their plans on hold and hit the community colleges.

    If their college funds look anything like my 401k, they are in hurting shape. None of us escaped. As it is now, in VA, anyone can go to the community colleges without all the legal presence hoops. Do kids without documentation pay in state or out of state fees? I do not know. It makes a huge difference as to affordability.

    I am all in favor of an educated population. I hate that these kids are being caught up in the system through no fault of their own.


    My neighbor is a teacher at OP. She has a former student that does some babysitting for her that can’t get into GMU because she was here from El Salvador on a TPS visa, which needs to be renewed. The family either had an idiot or unscrupulous lawyer that told the family that only the father’s TPS was important to renew so he could work. Now the kids in the family are without legal status and have been in limbo for the last few years waiting for paperwork to be processed. So she is at NOVA, paying full tuition. Since she is so smart, she was able to get scholarships for her first year at NOVA, but next year she will have to pay the out of state rate. They hope that by the time she finishes her second year at NOVA that her paperwork will be processed so GMU can let her in. She’s already been accepted, but can’t attend until she gets her card.

  3. Rick Bentley

    There are plenty of children in the world, or more accurately young adults, not eligible for US taxpayer subsidy towards college. So it is and so it will remain.

  4. Rick Bentley

    What is important is not to start throwing tax dollars at people just because they are currently within our territory, just because they and/or their parents violated our border and laws. That is paramount.

    Now if the kids want to declare independence from theor parents – WHO SHOULD BE DEPORTED FORTHWITH ANYWAY – they can attend college just like our own citizens can.

  5. hello

    This is a sticky wicket… I feel bad that these young adults can’t get in-state tuition due to their parents decisions in life. It’s not the kids fault but they are the ones that have to literally ‘pay’ for their parents actions or to be more accurate non-action.

  6. Moon-howler

    Twinad, I wonder if the whole family is even eligible for TPS. The people I have known in the past are not. Usually one person is eligible, gets the temporary protective status and then brings other family members here illegally. In other words, our policy programs them for failure to comply.

    Perhaps things have changed. It has been a long time since I have talked with anyone with this problem. Does anyone know?

  7. kelly3406

    If passed, this legislation will create yet another incentive for foreign citizens to sneak across our borders or to overstay their visas. If illegal immigrants do not care enough for their children to do the right thing, then we should not bail them out with this legislation. In addition, it is already extremely competitive to gain admission to some of Virginia’s top public universities — why should we make it even more difficult for the children of U.S. citizens?

  8. Moon-howler

    I think college as an incentive for most immigrant families is way off the radar. Many of those who are here illegally are uneducated. The dream of college isn’t there. The incentive argument is bogus in most cases.

    Not in all cases, but in many cases, the drive for academic excellence amongst children of illegal immigrants comes from within the child, not the parents. The next part of the equation has to be, who pays for this education? Most immigrant kids simply don’t have the money to be knocking citizen students out of the way.

    People grouse and grumble about gang participation. People grouse and grumble about immigrants being ‘stupid’ and not knowing how to speak English. People grouse and grumble about immigrants having no skills and packing huge numbers of people in 1 house. People grouse and grumble about the occassional immigrant kid who does well in school and wants to go to college.

    Seems like there is no winning.



    I only know what my neighbor told me, but it sounds like the whole family had TPS status at one time, but then it lapsed for the children. I couldn’t agree more wiht your statements above that start with “People grouse and grumble about…”! There is no winning.

  10. Moon-howler

    An educated society is a better society. Set aside quality of life issues–if for no other reason than an educated society brings in more money. It serves no one other than the mean-spirited side of some people to keep these kids from achieving their educational goals.

  11. Elena

    Exactly M-H!

  12. Elena, when we feel the need to be generous, don’t you think we ought to use our own money?

    Whose money do these universities and colleges want to be generous with? Is it possible that the fact these people support the so-called “Dream Act” is irrelevant? What do you think is the possibility that university and college administrators would just like to increase the size of the government gravy train headed their way?

    There is such a thing as using the government for robbery and extortion. Never forget that the fact the taxpayers pay for something does not make it free. To pay for illegal immigrants to go to college, some citizens will either have to work harder and for longer or give up something they want. Never forget how the government gets money out of the taxpayers. Is there not an explicit threat of property confiscation and jail?

    There is a reason we were founded as a republic rather than as direct democracy. Even when we are in the majority, just because we want something does not mean we have the right take what we want from the minority.

  13. DB

    US born children of immigrant parents also have to prove their parents legal status to gain in state tuition at NOVA, if the student is under the age of 24years. My friend was born here in the US, and when she went to apply at NOVA, she had to bring her parents’ green cards in order to qualify for in state tuition. If her parents were not here legally, my friend would have been required to pay out of state tuition even though she herself is a US citizen. So it’s not just foreign born students who get trapped into the out of state tuition bracket due to their parents’ legal status, but US born students of immigrant parents face the same qualifiers for in state tuition rates.

  14. kelly3406

    Moon-howler :
    An educated society is a better society. Set aside quality of life issues–if for no other reason than an educated society brings in more money. It serves no one other than the mean-spirited side of some people to keep these kids from achieving their educational goals.

    Nobody is keeping these kids from achieving their educational goals. They just have to pay for themselves. The DREAM Act would allow for illegal immigrants to receive in-state tuition, which is a taxpayer subsidy. If YOU want to donate to the education funds of the children of illegal aliens, please feel free to do so. But get your hands out of MY pockets!!

    We accepted that the federal government would follow through on closing the borders after amnesty was was granted the first time. That never happened. I will vigorously oppose any taxpayer subsidies to illegal aliens and their children until the borders are closed (northern and southern).

  15. Elena

    Citizen Tom,
    What alternative are you suggesting? The choice is to either allow these children the opportunity to become higher skilled participants in our much needed higher income wage earners or relegate them to unskilled labor where we insist we have too many “illegal immigrants” taking the jobs of other “americans” who supposedly are “unwilling” to fill these jobs. If a student has graduated from public schools, attended public schools for most of their life, their parents have paid local taxes (i.e. in rent, food, retail, and other cost of living requirements), these children should be able to attend college at an instate tuition.

    On one hand I hear the hysteria “we are turning into a third world country” and yet, the very means to educate and promote highly skilled workers is denied to these children. You cannot have it both ways! Do you know any children who were brought to this country very young and think of America as their country? Do you? I am curious, because IF you do, I would love to hear their response to your statement.

    Do you know people in education? Do you really think that teachers, professors, and others look at education as a big money maker? I think you are confusing wall street with higher education.

  16. Elena

    Thanks DB for that info.

  17. Moon-howler

    If we are turning into a third world country then it is because of the trashy habits of some of our own citizens. No one ever wants to talk about that.

    Kelly, if those kids have gone to school here and lived in the state, they have lived somewhere. They have paid property tax (or the home owner has), probably car tax, and sales tax. In many cases, their parents have paid income tax using a TIN. Why is it that you feel you have somehow paid more into the system than these folks have?

    Generally speaking, and we are talking superior students here, the households that produce kids like this have hard working parents, often working 2-3 jobs. They don’t move around a lot.

    To want to keep anyone ignorant is a crime.

  18. Moon-howler

    My father was a lowly headmaster at a lowly private school. He didn’t make that much money. My mother didn’t work during those years. Maybe my parents hadn’t put enough money into the system for me to qualify for in-state tuition. I didn’t come from wealthy people. Yet I took 4 years of in-state tuition. I hope I didn’t bump a wealthier, more deserving student out of a spot.

  19. Emma

    I’m sure China would be more than happy to lend us more cash for the ever-expanding social-welfare gravy train. I’m brushing up on my Mandarin.

  20. Elena – Your argument is based upon logical fallacies. In fact, you are posing so many logical fallacies it is hard to keep track of them. Here are several of them.

    1. False Dilemma or a False dichotomy: If taxpayers don’t pay for education, nobody will get the education they need. Why it is false: You could use the same argument to justify the government providing “free” housing, food, automobiles or whatever. However, we are accustomed to buy our own housing, food, and automobiles (at least for the time being). With respect to education, what government funding does is to reduce the immediate cost of education to the student. However, because government funding reduces cost to the student, students tend to be less judicious about their educational choices(They are using other people’s money.). Thus the result of government funding is a less effective educational system.
    2. Two Wrongs Make a Right: Unless we do a second wrong, we cannot correct a second wrong. This is equivalent to the alcoholic who uses more alcohol to cure a hangover. It addresses the fact you think giving the children of illegal immigrants a free public education creates a problem for them. Why it is false: Where is the problem? Make up your mind. Does a “free” education help or impair the children of illegal immigrants? Do you really think the fact we are dumb enough to pay for the primary and secondary education of the children of illegal immigrants justifies the cost of further education?
    3. False Dilemma: If we don’t educate the children of illegal immigrants, we will turn into a third world country. Why it is false: Our government officials have been inviting more poor people into the country than we can assimilate. To make matters worse, our educators have become multiculturalists, purveyors of “diversity.” Instead of instilling traditional American values and English language skills into their students, they are trying to keep Mexicans Mexican, Central Americans Central American, South Americans South American and so forth. Such idiocy makes our government-run education system one of the reasons we are turning into a third world country. That suggests budget cuts, not increases, might be a good idea.
    4. Ad hominem: Tom is a teacher hater. Tom does not understand teachers. He does not know that teachers are good people too. Why it is false: Instead of addressing the issue, this argument attempts to make me the problem. While there are undoubtedly some university and college administrators who honestly believe tax dollars should be used to educate the children of illegal immigrants, the simple fact is is that them people have an economic interest in the matter. Don’t forget the general character of human beings. If we are not readily prepared sacrifice everything to help the children of the world, we must be evil, right? We must be greedy too! LOL! When it comes to this matter, is there a good reason why I should not regard the judgment university and college administrators as biased?

  21. Elena

    So Tom, in your diatribe back to me, you have not answered my one question to you….how many children, brought here by their parents, unable to attend college and hope for a future have you actuallly spoken with?

  22. Elena – The question is not relevant. What is the point of making me the issue? It is a phony argument. If I fall for it, then in order to be right, I have to demonstrate perfect knowledge — or I have to prove you have less perfect knowledge.

    When we get into such discussion, we do not resolve anything. We do not discuss the issue. Instead, we look for excuses to destroy each other.

    What you are doing is demanding that the taxpayers spend their money on people who are not even supposed to be in the country. Instead of fixing the problem, what you would have us do is give more of our hard-earned dollars into the hands people who lied to us. Somehow, I do not think that will help.

  23. Elena

    The reality is that these kids are here, now, at this very moment. My approach simply takes in the reality of the present circumstances. WHY is the question relevant? Because if you happen to KNOW a child who is in this circumstance, the human toll is much clearer to understand. It isn’t just pure altruism that brings me to this understanding, if THESE children are denied a productive future, it is in NO ONES best interest, least of all taxpayers!

    “Destroy each other”, not sure what you mean. I have said this over and over, ad nauseum, immigration, for a country BUILT on immigrants, legal and otherwise, has always been contentious. If we don’t like a particular group, we just pass laws to make them illegal. I am NOT suggesting that this circumstance fits that description, but I am suggesting we not forget where our OWN ancestors came from. I know I have an “illegal” relative in my distant past, maybe you do too Tom 😉

  24. Moon-howler

    Regardless of who is supposed to be here and who isn’t, it is not in the best interest of the United States to refuse to allow these students to matriculate. Since when can we afford to throw away kids? Schools all over the nation bring in foreign students to help offset the cost of college. How can we admit foreign students while not allowing those who have attended schools in the United States who are excellent students to go to college?

    Citizen Tom, I am trying to break your diatribe down into bite size pieces. Did you just say that students who get in-state tuition tend to be less judicious about their educational choices? Now just what is that supposed to mean? It sounds like you are saying students who go to state supported schools screw off more. Please explain.

  25. Diatribe? I think a few people may wish to look up the definition.

    Elena – I know wife and my children. I know my brothers and my sisters. I know my friends. They all have wishes that could be satisfied with taxpayer dollars. I know them, and they have wishes. Is that all it takes to justify taxing and spending?

    The reality is that with taxes we take other people’s money. Should we tax people just so we can give money to those people we feel sorry for? When we feel sorry for someone, what is wrong with using our own money? What right do we have to use government to take the money of others and give it to someone else? What justification do you have, a wish? Wishes are endless.

    Destroy each other? That is hard to understand? We are talking politics. You want something. I say no. What is your obligation? Is it to justify what you want? Should you overcome my objections with logical argument, or is it okay to make me the issue? Should you overcome my objections or me?

    Moon-howler – If illegal immigrants want to pay for their education, I do not object. I just want them to follow our laws. If you cannot see the difference between foreign students who pay and foreign students who want us to pay, I do not know what to say.

    There is a myth. The myth is that only government can educate the People. That is simply not true.

    One problem with our current education system is straightforward. Most people spend their own hard-earned money with much more carefully than they spend money that is given to them by the government. When we go to primary and secondary school, government pays for 100 percent of the cost. Thus, we have a bunch of students in primary and secondary school who do not take school seriously.

    The difference between high school and college is remarkable. You have to volunteer for college. In fact, most states require that you pay at least part of the cost. That makes for an important difference. Students take their education much more seriously.

    What if students and their parents had to pay for 100 percent of the cost? I think the difference would astound us. Given that education is a privilege — not a right — I also think it should be that way.

    Do you insist education is right? Think we are obligated to pay taxes for the education of others? I suggest you consider two things.

    1. Human nature: When people want something badly enough, they may struggle, but they will find a way.

    2. An old saying: You can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

  26. Elena

    Interesting you bring up in your point #1: Human nature, when people want something badly enought, they may struggle, but they will find a way….sort of like immigrants, legal or otherwise?

    How do you feel about people on welfare, medicare, medicaid? Our taxes go for those programs too. Do you think that people who are here undocumented don’t pay taxes in some form or another? If that is the issue, give them a required path to legalization and your argument is done.

    Tom, there is no way to seperate the humanity of these children from the argument. I will continue to stress my original point as you must NOT know any children faced with this abyss of hopelessness.

  27. Elena

    If students and parents had to pay 100% of the cost then we would have the worlds least highly educated work force I imagine. Not sure what you mean by 100% though, middle income families are struggling to pay for their childrens’ tuition as it is, even instate tuition is becoming increasingly difficult to afford.

  28. Moon-howler


    There are several ways to look at the ‘who pays’ point of view. If parents are paying, the student is once again off the hook.

    No one is sugggesting that children of illegal aliens have their college paid for. All I am asking for is admission and in-state tuition status if they attend college where they have have lived for whatever the state requirement for residency is. Level playing field I believe we Americans call it.

    In countries where government does not pay for education, you will find under-educated populations and great disparity amongst the people.

  29. […] Once again I am commenting at ANTI-BVBL.  Since the topic of Illegal Immigration will most likely soon arrive in Congress once again, I decided to see what ANTI-BVBL had to say about it.  Here is the latest post, Dare to Dream a Dream….universities and colleges support the Dream Act. […]

  30. Elena and Moon-howler — See my latest post (

    Moon-howler — Level the playing field? LOL! To level the playing field, you are asking that taxpayer pay two-thirds of the costs.

    Our republic is a rarity, and it came into existence before public education.

    Time has brought change. All advanced nations now pay for the education of children. Most also have government-run or heavily regulated schools. I am afraid this fact says more about the power hunger of those who rule us than it says about the best way to educate children. What is certain is that the poor nations that cannot pay for public education cannot provide a counter example. Name one that has sufficient political or economic freedom.

    Our republic is, after all, a rarity,

  31. Elena

    I will respond here to you Tom. Once again, I will repeat myself, probably kinda irritating at this point.

    The reality is that these kids are here, now, at this very moment. My approach simply takes in the reality of the present circumstances. WHY is the question relevant? Because if you happen to KNOW a child who is in this circumstance, the human toll is much clearer to understand. It isn’t just pure altruism that brings me to this understanding, if THESE children are denied a productive future, it is in NO ONES best interest, least of all taxpayers! ”

    Tom, these children are not going home, they are home. If you were brought to this country as a young child, all your memories of home are “American”. We want these kids to “assimilate” so they probaby dont’ read or write in their native language. We complain that the children of immigrants “won’t” assimilate, and yet, obtaining a college degree is an extremely valuable way to participate in all the arena’s that people mostly complain about! Not being dependent a burden on the government, blah blah blah, etc etc. You can talk about Aristotle all you want, the REALITY is that these children are here, now what do we do? You may not support public education, but Thomas Jefferson sure did.

  32. Moon-howler

    If the children of illegal aliens have paid sales taxes, property tax has been paid on their homes and automobiles, and perhaps they have paid state taxes, what is it that you would have them do to get in-state tuition?

    Thomas Jefferson certainly was a proponent of public education. He believed that ignorance was the enemy of freedom. While he had ideas repugnant to us nowadays, (slaves and females were not included in his educational plan) in many ways he was light years ahead of the times. He wanted to see men educated commensurate to the knowledged required for their life work.

    With this in mind, do we not want to ensure that our most talented students receive the education they need and desire?

    My guess is that if I dropped in-state tuition from my wish list and simply asked that they be admitted to college and allowed to pay the rates that all foreign students pay, that wouldn’t be good enough either.

    No one here has attempted to address the best way to educate children. I am sure we all have our own ideas.

  33. Elena — You are using the seriousness of the problem to justify the solution. That is, you are using the ends to justify the means. Moreover, you are stating that only your means will work — without providing a shred of proof. Frankly, when you insist upon spending other people’s money — instead of your own — I see no reason to be impressed by the depth of your caring. What you are trying to do is impose your “reality” upon others.

    Moon-howler — Thomas Jefferson believed in adherence to the Constitution. He advocated limited government. Do you?

  34. Elena

    I am wondering Tom, what is YOUR solution to these children caught up in this limbo? It seems as though you are unwilling to look at the human side of this issue, sometimes Tom, looking at the morality and humaneness for the answer often leads us to the best solution.

    Throughout history man has used “legality” to justify many unjust laws. It was “illegal” for whites and blacks to marry, it was “illegal” to sit at the front of the bus. Change happened, because at the end of the day, it was simply morally wrong to uphold these institutions. For me, I believe it is morally wrong to allow children to live in an abyss of despair, with no real hope for their future.

    Sometimes life’s answers are just that simple Tom.

  35. Moon-howler

    Define limited. I believe in public education for all children. I believe that young people should not have artificial barriers that prevent them from being all that they can be.

    Do you realize how petty your argument is? I can’t figure out if you are against in-state tuition for all students or if you are against it for a select few: Those whose parents might not have visas to be in the country.

    There is a simple solution. Give the kid a state visa if he/she has a B average his/her last 2 years in high school. Problem solved. That student can go on to school with the other graduates

    Then what road blocks can be thrown up?

  36. Gainesville Resident

    I kind of think it is better to have an educated populace than an uneducated one, and a lot of our problems as a society stem from having a somewhat growing lower class of not highly educated people. From that point of view, I don’t see the point of throwing up any additional roadblocks at people trying to seek higher education. You can blame the high cost of health care partly on the fact that we have so many less educated people who then cannot afford proper health insurance. Anyway, that’s my personal take on the whole “in-state tuition for immigrant children” thing. I don’t want to see the lower class of uninsured, unemployed people expand any further than it is, and these children are probably not going to leave the USA, particularly at the age where they are about ready to enter college. They’ve already been here awhile, so at that point I don’t see them doing an ex-migration out of the country. So this is what I would call a “realist” point of view.

  37. Nick_V

    I’m glad to see a growing list of associations backing up the Dream Act. I believe the DREAM act can only benefit this country by giving undocumented students a chance to excel just like any other kid. As a child of undocumented immigrants I know first hand what is like to hit a glass ceiling when you are trying to better yourself. It feels like you are not really there. Throughout high school I admired American history and it’s many figures that strived to make this country greater. As a kid I always saw this country as a beacon of hope, but I was seriously disillusioned when i saw that i could not continue something as simple as achieving higher education. My faith in this country was further shaken when I found myself nearly deported, and still remains a possibility.

    The Dream Act needs to pass and it needs to pass soon. I believe that common sense will prevail over bigotry. And it goes with out saying that en educated polulation will only benefit this country.

    Uncle Tom, oops, I mean ‘Citizen’ Tom, says that he does not want to pay for anyone’s education with his money. But i think he is already doing that and not for the ‘illegals’. I personally have known US Citizen college students that could care less about their education because mommy and daddy pay for it all. All they have to worry about is partying, girls, and oh yeah, just get a passing grade to get by and mom and dad will be happy. Everyone knows that a lot of US Citizen students view college as a four year party. I’ve even met some of these students and some seem to be dumber than dirt. If I even had a chance to be in their position, I would have respected the opportunity and gladly apply myself to the fullest to learn as much from college as possible, rather than to just get by long enough to get a degree and be able to land a good job. But even those degrees don’t guarantee you a job. It’s up to the graduate to go out and secure one. No one is talking about giving the DREAMers a free ride. They would still have to pay tuition like everyone else. The Dream Act is only giving a fair shot to undocumented students.

  38. Moon-howler

    And why on earth would they want to leave? They are US educated and know no other life.

    I hold a particular grudge at people who begrudge kids things because of reasons beyond their control. I especially hold a grudge if the kid is hard working and has tried to do the right thing.

    Do we deny college entrance and in-state tuition to kids whose parents are on welfare, in prison?

  39. Elena

    Exactly GR and M-H. We WANT people to be successful and self supportive and WHY on earth would these kids LEAVE the only home they know!

  40. Elena

    Thanks for your personal perspective Nick_V and welcome to Anti! Tom isn’t a bad person, quite bright actually, just needs to “walk in someone elses shoes” for a little bit I think.

  41. Gainesville Resident

    Elena – I’m just taking a pragmatic point of view on the whole thing. It is foolish for us as a society to want a huge less educated populace. That’s just shooting ourselves in the foot. I just think it is very short sighted to deny anyone an opportunity to further their education, and personally I am all for people who want to go to college and pursue their goals. But from a pragmatic/realist point of view, the last thing we need is to cause anything to INCREASE the amount of less educated people – that just leads to more welfare needs, uninsured people, unemployed people, etc. etc. Bad for the economy, bad for the taxpayer, and bad for healthcare costs. Again, sort of shooting yourself in the foot. But also, I just think those who want to pursue higher education shouldn’t be dissuaded from that – just because if they want to better themselves, I think we shouldn’t make it hard for them to pursue their goals in life.

  42. Elena

    Great points, simply from a pragmatic perspective, in a country that requires a strong tax base to survive, that requires ingenuity to thrive, we NEED an educated populace. This view also coincides what is ethically correct.

  43. Gainesville Resident

    Yes, like I said, simply a pragmatic/realistic view of things. These people have grown up here anyway, and I don’t really see them leaving, so better for them to get an education and become successful than to be a drain on the economy, healthcare, etc.

  44. Mando

    Wonderful!!! MORE entitlements and MORE taxes to pay for them.

    Why can’t the Elena’s of the world put their money where their mouth is? Why do they continue to insist on stealing it from my paycheck?

  45. Elena

    Wouldn’t you rather have these kids making more for the tax base due ot the higher earning possiblilites with better education then being lower income earners? How does that logic NOT make sense to you? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

  46. Lucy

    Did you take the time to read the bill? They will only be eligible for loans and work-study, NOT federal grants. So they will be paying for their own education, either as they study or later once they have to start paying off their loans like everyone else.

    Some people have really bad reading comprehension. Geez.

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