All of us know of a student who went away to school only to get into serious trouble with alcohol. Some of them don’t come home, at least not in a way that is desirable. Some kids get away from home for the first time and end up dead in alcohol related accidents on the road. Other kids simply die of alcohol poisoning. Still others die from aspiration in their sleep when they are simply too drunk to react involuntarily. Some kids are fortunate enough to just have to spend the evening toilet hugging with a killer hang over the next day.
Hats off to Virginia Tech for trying to curb this behavior. According to the Washington Examiner:
This semester, the school in Blacksburg, Va., began notifying parents when their under-21 students are found guilty of even minor alcohol violations such as getting caught with a beer in a dorm room.
Although it’s common for colleges to alert parents of major alcohol offenses — or when a student faces suspension — Virginia Tech is part of a small but growing number sending letters home on minor ones.
The debate about how much to involve parents in such cases is a balancing act for colleges and universities. Officials want to hold young adults accountable as they venture out on their own, are well aware that drinking is part of the college experience, and also recognize potential allies in a generation of hands-on parents who can help when things go too far
Many people feel that the school is simply over-reaching. Predictably, young people in particular, feel that they are adults since most are 18 or older. They feel that parental notification is a breach of privacy. The school takes a different view.
The student reaction to the policy change, not surprisingly, has been less than enthusiastic.
“If you have one beer in the dorm and you get caught, I don’t feel like parents should be notified,” said Erik Pryslak, a junior engineering major. “Now that we’re all in college, we’re all adults. It’s kind of your responsibility to take care of yourself. If you want to make your parents aware you’re about to be kicked out of school, then it’s on you.”
Studies show that students who say their parents would disapprove of them drinking are less likely to drink heavily once they get to college, said Toben Nelson, an assistant professor at the University of Minnesota School of Public Health who has studied campus drinking.
At Virginia Tech, the school has operated on a “three strikes” system for years: Students get one strike for a minor alcohol violation and two for a major one — things like getting a DUI or vomiting all over a residence hall bathroom. Three strikes and a student is suspended for at least one semester.
After a spate of alcohol-related deaths on college campuses, Congress in the late 1990s changed student privacy laws to lower barriers to parental notification in cases involving students under 21.
Back in the day, kids had 3 years to grow up–that time from 18 to 21 where you were let off your leash just a little but the parents still had some control. It was sort of a growing up safety net. Very little of that thought exists nowadays and with the advent of the 26th amendment that gave voting rights to 18 year olds, parents have had less and less control over their youngsters once they turned 18.
Are 18 year olds really all that mature? Do they still have some growing up to do? Most still need some guidance it seems. Good for Va Tech for taking this somewhat controversial position in dealing with alcohol related infractions. I would imagine most parents would be thankful.
So should VA Tech assume the role of narc or in loco parentis and report those with alcohol violations to parents? Is alcohol that serious of a problem on campuses? Isn’t it better to drink than do drugs? Isn’t alcohol use a time-honored tradition of going to college? Some of these attitudes need to be re-examined. Society’s view of both drinking and smoking have changed a great deal over the years.
How is this not a violation of federal and state laws? If VT is really this concerned they ought to just kick the student out.
I have a couple of thoughts about this, since I’ve had two kids complete college and one on the way in the fall. First, it’s an awfully big assumption that all parents are involved or even care once they send their kids off. Some of the kids are paying their own way, like I did. I can’t imagine how I would have felt if my parents were contacted for any indiscretions, since I was the paying customer (although back then it was legal to drink at 18).
But since I have been paying the ride for my kids, I have a little resentment that I am not entitled to be informed of their grades because of the kids’ privacy rights. I resent not being able to know about any medical treatments they get from the student health dept. Yet the school will be calling me if the kid has a beer?
If the student is caught drinking while underage, shouldn’t the law be followed and the police notified? Private homes, in which “underage” adults are caught drinking are fined or arrested. Is it against privacy laws for parents to be notified about adult crimes? What type of information IS allowed for the parent to be notified about? If its restrictive, why should this be different? Would they call the parents for pot use?
The problem is not the drinking. The problem is that we want our cake and to eat it, too. Either an 18 year old is an adult or not. If not, remove the privileges that come with majority and treat them as children. No voting. No marriage without permission. No contracts. No enlisting without permission. No buying tobacco.
If a person is old enough to vote, join the military, kill people, break things, be responsible for others’ lives and millions of dollars worth of equipment, get married without permission, sign contracts, then that person should be allowed to buy and drink alcohol.
Now, if they abuse it, take appropriate action. If you expect that your child will be drinking when they leave home, TEACH THEM TO DRINK SAFELY. Its your responsibility as a parent. I mean, we teach them about sex, etc., so why not something as simple as “how to drink a beer without getting drunk?” If you remove the mystery and make it commonplace, the urge to abuse the privilege of drinking is lessened.
We do need to re-examine our attitudes towards alcohol. Its just a type of food. Nothing else. Yes, it acts as a drug. But, if not abused, the effect is quite minor.
Heck, if my mother had ever been called because I was “caught drinking” (If it had been illegal….It wasn’t illegal when I was in college.), she would have given the college a piece of her mind and demanded that if the situation was serious enough to call HER, then why haven’t the cops been called?
It seems like many different reactions here. Wow. I would have been in major trouble just because I wasn’t suppose to break the rules. I lived in those days…when if you broke the rules it reflected poorly on your parents.
I don’t think being able to vote gives a kid exclusive adult rights. I think the 26th amendment gives kids the right to vote. Period. (if you are old enough to fight for your country you are old enough to have a beer.) No credit cards issued until 21 now. No booze until 21. I don’t think 18 is magic. I like the safety net approach.
Also, there should be a way that those who foot the bills for college get the grades and any other information.
My youngest is at VT today. Do I want her to drink to excess regardless of how old she is – no. She too is Irish and has been properly trained to drink and yes that does make a difference. Some folks are not properly trained to prepare to and to know how to drink with college buddies and go way overboard. Some are not properly trained to look both ways before crossing the street and sometimes these things end in tradegy. I am also sensitive to the alternatives. College is a mix of study , learning, social development and fun. At VT at least, there is also a lot of pressure to do well. At least in our experience , there is some serious work and prepration going on (Dean list). Do I want VT to call me because a Dorm Resident thinks my daugher has been drinking or is in possession – or doing anything else – no. I want to know if she is arrested for drunk & disorderly though. Moreover, I am particularly sensitive to the security requirements at VT. I expect VT to not divert their limited policing to normal college activities.
Agreed. Campus or Blacksburg PD should issue a summons and it’s then upto the adult student to contact whomever they want about it. But, for the school to provide that information about an adult to another adult – no.
This smacks of nanny state run amok and reinforces that a ‘child’ of upto 20 shouldn’t be accountable for his/her behavior.
Moon, we disagree here again. You are at least consistenlty a grandmothering, paternalistic safety netter, I will give you that. The problem is that you consistently argue for the government to do that work. The reality is that alcohol is the least of the problems on campus. Yes, kids can and will get hurt, in all sorts of ways. As noted, I also have seen how much these kids need to blow off steam. Making Alcohol illegal until you are 21, for all the reasons noted above, does nothing more than drive kids to the alternatives, push the issue underground and, frankly, develops a more serious and more general disrespect for the law. The dorms are not – officially – privacy protected now. Having the government (VT) step into my family’s business has its limits.
I am not ready to say that 18 year olds are real adults. The drinking age starts at 21.
The Constitution ONLY gives the right to vote. It does not convey adulthood on people at age 18. Funny how some of our most conservative contributors are buying into squishy constitution interpretation.
Slap slap bad Moon. Who says 18 year olds are adults?
How about the fact that each year kids die from alcohol related incidents at Virginia colleges and universities? I hear a lot of ‘my child would never….’
First off, taxpayer, grandmothering? Interesting. Secondly, VT is not the government. Thirdly, alcohol IS illegal until age 21.
Rule of Law? Only if it suits.
Of course kids sneak booze. Do you know any local kids who haven’t come home because they died in a pool of puke? I do. And do the parents often hold the school responsible? Sure they do. Do they hold the school responsible for shooting deaths? suicides? murders? yes. Is the school ever sued? Yes. Who pays? You and I.
Dorms are the property of the school. Are you one of those people who think that dog runs at schools are an invasion of privacy during the drug searches and that its the kid’s locker? Check the ownership on that one with the court.
Put your kid off campus if you don’t like the dorm rules. If you want the laws on alcohol changed, work towards change, don’t just break the law.
Few things.
VT is a state school with the Board of Visitors appointed by the Gov. of Virginia. Cite: http://www.bov.vt.edu/
“The Board of Visitors is the governing authority for Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. The Board is composed of 14 members, 13 of whom are appointed by the Governor. The 14th member is the President of the Board of Agriculture and Consumer Services, who serves ex officio.”
Your right that the constitution doesn’t set the age of majority. That’s actually something the States have responsibility over. States can set there own drinking laws but an age of 21 is required to get federal transportation dollars. So, if Virginia wanted to it could set the age to 12 and tell the govt to take its transportation dollars and pound sand. But, we’re addicted to federal dollars so we take the money and set the standard at 21 with whatever provisions we want (exemptions for religious matters, etc.)
But to your question; the States say that adults are 18. They can also declare them adults at lower ages (for purposes of felonies/death penalty or emancipation).
Virginia had a drinking age of 18 back in ’74. Cite http://www.abc.state.va.us/facts/legalage.html
Droms (at VT at least) are property of the govt. If the govt is that concerned over underage drinking use the current law and cite the drinking adult. Otherwise a phone call (home) is next to useless.
Well said Marinm. I should have known about the Federal incentives, hooks, intrusions, requirements into something as fundementally preserved to the states as the age of reason. Setting such an age is not exactly interstate commerce.
Now, back in the day , I could drink but could not vote over the war in southeast asia. Really ticked me off. Now, they can vote and can be expected to kill and pay taxes, but cannot sit down and get a legal drink — with the parents. Either be consistently wrong or consistenyly right, but be consistent.
Yes VA and most other states had the drinking age set at 18 back in the 70′s. And it turned out that everyone learned that people shouldn’t be learning to drink and drive at the same time. Too many kids were getting involved in alcohol related accidents. That’s when the feds stepped back in with their carrot/stick approach. They also did the same thing over speed limits.
I am well aware that VA tech is a state supported school. How would you feel if Randolph Macon or Hampton Sidney had the same alcohol criteria? I don’t think it matters. The University Hospital in Charlottesville is not the government and it is certainly state supported.
I would say that the dorms are the property of Virginia Tech. And judging from the opinions here, it probably would be useless to call home. If it were my kid, I would tell her or him to go by the law and the schools rules or pay their own fees next semester. Parents have all the control in the world if they are footing the bill and if they have the stones.
Obviously 18 isn’t really adulthood in Virginia or there would not be any discrepancy between the rights of an 18 year old and a 50 year old. It seems to be a gray area to me.
Let’s see….you are an adult. You can vote. You can be emancipated from your parents. You can live on your own. You can access your own medical and scholastic records. But..don’t try to drink or get credit in your own name. VA won’t let you buy a gun either will they? How about getting a CC permit?
18-21 is definitely a gray area.
If you could drink but not vote, it wasn’t in Virginia.
You can buy a gun at 18 and open carry it. But, need to be 21 to get a permit to conceal carry. Also, need to be 21 to buy ammo but anyone can simply give it to you.
Interesting that your a proponent of treating people differently on something like age. I would’ve assumed that you would be a proponent of treating people equally.
If 18 is the age of majority then we need to stop coddling adults after that age with ‘calling mom and dad at home about your drinking’. Book them. Or, as Jackson Miller wants – arrest them on the spot instead of giving out a summons.
I find it interesting that we are de-evolving in terms of the responsibility of our youth. Years ago a 12-14 year old could work, marry, own property and be responsible for themselves. Now, they need a pacifier and governmental and parental protection until the age of 21.
If your old enough to bleed for your country, old enough to have a kid and old enough to vote for POTUS – in my mind you can have a drink. Welcome to adulthood and not having to wear pampers.
I also don’t want 6 year olds driving cars. Silly me. I don’t want 10 year old girls to be married to 35 year old men either.
Speaking of judgement…marin, you are really beginning to sound foolish. Obviously people are prevented from having certain rights because society does not feel that they are mature enough. I can go with that or work change the law rather than scoffing at it. If you don’t like the drinking laws then bust your tail to change the law.
13 year olds are old enough to breed. I don’t advocate babies having babies. Damn few 14 year olds could own property, especially if they were women.
Finally, I base my opinion growing up less than a mile from UVA. I have seen the real ugly side of young people…yea…kids…using and abusing alcohol. I have had family friends have a child die at school from alcohol. Alcohol is a serious drug and should be treated respectfully. Many life long drinking habits are formed while in college. Hopefully parents can help kids who are breaking the law become lawabiding, responsible drinkers.
I can debate without calling people names.
Ok, so your arguement is about the age of majority and then delves into the age for certain activities. I’m ok with that. My point is that once you hit the age of majority age restrictions should disappear as the person is now considered an adult and should have the privleges of being an adult.
Our laws treat children as property of the parent. When a kid screws up; the parent is held accountable. If we move the age of majority up to 21 we can look forward to having parents locked up for having a 20 year old potentially a few states away drinking at a party. Let’s lock up the parent because he wasn’t controlling his property in accordance with the law. It’s silly. If we’re going to lock someone up – lock up the offender.
If the law says underage drinking is illegal then PROSECUTE. Take the offender and ruin his/her life by giving them a rap sheet. But, the idea that you’ll call that persons parents in hopes that that’ll modify the behavior when the parent may ONLY have the ability at most to say ‘we won’t pay for your school anymore’ just doesn’t strike me as the smart thing to do. If you have a law; use it. Punish the offenders. If we’re so concerned about drunk drivers DON”T LET DUI OFFENDERS WALK.
It’s like gun laws. We have way too many as it is. Use current laws to convict offenders instead of dreaming up new schemes to cajole an adult offender.
“Damn few 14 year olds could own property, especially if they were women. ” I imagine this to be a typo. might want to re-examine that.
If parents who’ve had 18 years of time with their ‘kids’ haven’t convinced them in that time that drinking to over-indulgence or underage drinking is a ‘bad idea’ then how is doing it after they’re an adult living away from home and away from the parent going to change anything?
I’m with ya Marinm. Lets go the other way too. Nobody should be driving above the age of 75 – or drinking or voting for that matter. The driving this is clear cut – its a safety issue. The drinking thing is about the nanny state and determining what is good for you. The voting thing is that at that age, the propensity is nothing more than to seek more entitlements.
@Moon-howler
Of course, we only lowered the voting age to 18 because we had the draft at 18. Just raise the draft age to 21, return 18 year olds to childhood, and raise the voting age.
Cargo, what do we do, repeal the 26th amendment? It has been problematic since its inception. I have seen it as law that has supported the erosion of parental rights. That was not the intention, of course.
I think the age between 18 and 21 is a time where one learns adult skills.
Strange that the 26th came along right before we did away with the draft.
Marin, I don’t think I called you names.
I also don’t think you have children or if you do, they aren’t old enough for you do see some of the bone headed things kids can do. I am not going to pay the bills on crap AI have no control over.
Its easier to be theoretical than it is to live through having teenagers grow into young adults.
I suspect that VT may be reacting to some of the same things I am beginning to hear among parents in Northern Virginia. To wit, that they have become somewhat leery about packing their 18-year-olds off to some of our finest colleges and universities because of what they have heard about a failure to control the alcohol and drug scenes on campus. I won’t name names, but I will say that more and more parents — and even the serious kids — are looking either at community college for a couple of years or possibly a large four-year college closer to home. Cost is also a factor, I might add.
Wolverine, you and I must tune in to the same parent station. I am hearing the same thing. Many many kids are ending back at home, not just because of the alcohol and drug issues but the general culture on these campuses.
I think kids are just numbers on many campuses and many campuses are just too large. They are small cities and too many people, not just kids, fall through the cracks.
I very much support the community college system. Some of the best instruction takes place there. It is cost effective and a good place to take the basics. Freshman English is freshman English.
My nephew at University of Vermont – moved back to his parents’ house – because he could not take the partying atmosphere in his dorm at college. His parents live only 5 miles from the campus, but they wanted him to live in the dorm and have the full college experience. He did that the first 2 years, but now in his Junior year he is back at home. I think this is typical of many college campuses these days, unfortunately. Now, my niece who is 3 years older than him went to the same school, and did live on campus the full 4 years. She was an excellent student, but either her dorm wasn’t such a party atmosphere, or she was better able to block out all the noise, etc. than my nephew, which is possible.
These days, I don’t know how people afford college. It seems to me the community college system is a great way to do freshman year, and then move to a more expensive college for the remainder. I can’t believe how much college costs these days. When I went I remember it was shocking it cost $10K/year for tuition, room and board. Now, more than $40K/year is not uncommon – or at least last I looked a few years ago my undergrad school had hit that amount! They may be closing in on $50K/year now! Shocking!
Totally agree, GR. The cost takes the breath away.
This is going to drive it further underground, God know the last thing we need is another UM case where the other kids were too scared to call an ambulance which resulted in the guy dying. It’s time to lower the drinking age to 18. And let me add that the University of Virginia policy is about the best one I’ve seen.