Alex Granados now gives his personal opinion. Posted in its entirety from News & Messenger:

Alex Granados
Published: June 27, 2010

I like Corey Stewart. I really do. When I became editorial page editor a few years back, I went out to lunch with him. I found him to be interesting, friendly and kind. Meeting and talking with him at various times since then has done nothing to change that perception. He is intelligent, articulate and a strong leader.

Having said all of that, I find myself often opposed to some of his public actions. Now, I don’t mean the everyday aspects of governance involving the humdrum of local administration, I mean the big things. And often, it’s not even that I disagree with him. No, it’s his style that rankles me.

Lest you think I’m being superficial, let me explain.

The main issue for which Mr. Stewart is known is probably illegal immigration. He was a staunch supporter of the county’s illegal immigration resolution, and he is spearheading the fight to bring Arizona-style illegal immigration reform to Virginia.

What bothers me is how much he seems to relish the limelight, how much he seems to enjoy injecting himself in controversial topics, how much he appears to be trying to use Prince William County as a jumping off point to something bigger.

This was touched upon in an editorial Friday, but that is the newspaper’s opinion. I wanted to explain mine.

The initial Prince William County illegal immigration resolution was supervisor John Stirrup’s baby, but somewhere along the line, Stewart adopted it. He went on television, he spoke to newspapers local and national, and he raised his political profile quite a few feet in the process. The pinnacle of this came when he stepped out of a public hearing on the issue to give an interview to CNN. What better example of his putting his fame above county residents could there be?

Now, with his latest push for statewide illegal immigration reform, Stewart is once again setting himself up for national attention. Arizona’s recent legislation has brought media from around country to that one state out of 50. No doubt, if Virginia tries the same thing, all eyes will be on our commonwealth. More specifically, those eyes will focus on the ringleader of it all: Corey Stewart.

However, Mr. Stewart will ultimately have nothing to do with the passage of the legislation. It will be voted on by our representatives. But if he keeps in the public eye on this issue, the credit will go to him, not our leaders in Richmond.

I guess when you get right down to it, my problem is that I question his motives.

I talked to Stewart about his most recent push for illegal immigration reform. He prefaced his remarks by giving me a litany of accomplishments that he says the News & Messenger has overlooked. But in fairness, none of them has had his name so intricately tied to it as has illegal immigration. We have even praised some county accomplishments, but not, according to Mr. Stewart, with credit being served where due. He says that the only time we single him out is when we want to criticize something. But if that is true, it is only because he attaches his name to some issues with such prominence that they cannot be discussed without also discussing him.

Like I said, I like Mr. Stewart. He is a nice person. I even think he is a good county leader. However, I wonder if he has a little guy named “Blind Ambition” on his shoulder, periodically leading him astray. If he could learn to listen to B.A. less, I think Stewart could be one of the best leaders the county has ever had.

I mean that honestly and with respect, Mr. Chairman

I expect many of our contributors and readers disagree with Mr. Granados. Consensus here at ‘Howlings is that Stewart has given up far too much to developers after promising to do otherwise.

Additionally, Corey should play the local paper a little smarter.  How ’bout it Corey?

And finally, most people find Corey likable, funny, friendly, and just a hell of a lot of fun. Too bad he has to spoil all that stepping on the backs of the constituents of Prince William County. Corey, play to your strengths!

43 Thoughts to “Granados Column: A great leader smothered by ambition”

  1. Satan knows how to be likable, too.

  2. Starryflights

    Stewart is a silly, upstart, [**adjective removed by admin**] little man with big ambitions.

  3. PWC Taxpayer

    Blah Blah blah, or run for office, get in the game and fend off every half baked and cheap personal shots. The problem with our politics is close at hand, moving away from policy debate, economics or jobs to the questions of old women on ambition.

  4. Just appreciate the News & Messenger for doing its job with a variety of opinion on the editorial page. This is the longest period of time I’ve gone without cancelling my subscription. That’s a compliment!

  5. Swooping Buzzard

    @PWC Taxpayer
    What do you have against old women?

  6. Need to Know

    I agree with Alex, for the most part. However, I think he understates how Corey Stewart first came to prominence in Prince William County. Corey pinned his first campaigns to land use and built a solid base of support composed of Republicans, Democrats and Independents around that issue, and the fiscal stability that follows. That was the time when Corey was an admirable leader who could build a consensus and unite people to work together for the improvement of the community.

    Corey has now completely betrayed those original supporters and many, including myself, are doing whatever we can to see him defeated next year. The only strong supporters he has now are the developers with their big campaign contributions and a few HSM people who still believe what he says and think he’s looking after their interests.

    The reason he may win next year is that he has been very successful tying himself to the Tea Party movement. If their momentum continues through November 2011, and Corey continues his insincere pandering, he could get reelected.

    If voters come to realize what a catastrophe Corey has set the stage for in Prince William County, they might decide that a rousing speech from him saying exactly what they want to hear is less important than higher taxes, more congested roads and increasingly crowded schools. By railroading through the BOCS a Land Use Chapter update of the Comprehensive Plan that delivers to his developer contributors all they wanted and more, and building a senior staff in the County government that will help them get it all, those problems will be Corey Stewart’s legacy to Prince William County.

    Talking about Comprehensive Plans and County budgets is not as exciting as rounding up illegal aliens or cheering on Sarah Palin when she says President Obama is not a US citizen (come on, if that were true Hillary would have found out and used it in the primary). Corey, however, focuses on the sensational, the limelight, whatever he thinks will get him attention and promoted to higher office. We’re left to clean up the mess.

    Corey sold his soul from being the bright, young leader who had the respect of our community whom I supported. He is now nothing but a cynical politician who will do whatever his paymasters instruct.

  7. Vigilant Vulture

    Bravo, Need to Know!! Very well stated and I think many will agree with your assessment of Corey’s wicked ways.

  8. Starry, are we to say welcome home?

    I am going to pull part of your comment down because I don’t think it has anything to do with the subject at hand or policy.

  9. tp, email me at moon.howler07@yahoo.com so that I have a working email address for you.

  10. Need to Know

    Washington Post: What issue do you care about most?

    Corey Stewart: Quality of life in the county. And that changes from time to time, based upon what the community needs. At one time it was trying to restrain residential development. At another time it was addressing illegal immigration. And now it’s about promoting economic growth in the county.

    The entire interview from November 29, 2009 is linked below. I guess quality of life, restraining residential development and promoting economic growth are no longer the priorities and we’re back to illegal immigration.

    He says regarding issues he cares about most last November, “At another time it was addressing illegal immigration.” OK – been there, done that, problem solved with the resolution. As of last November, Corey no longer cares about addressing illegal immigration. What happened between last November and now, Corey? Maybe an Arizona bandwagon to jump on?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/13/AR2009111302817.html

  11. Maybe Corey has never met a bandwagon or a mic he can resist.

  12. TP, I just checked on that email. It wasn’t there. That just moved the topic into the public area. Afraid I am going to ask you to explain comment #3 in detail including who you are referencing, specifically the old women you mentioned.

  13. PWC Taxpayer

    Calm down Moon. What, are your threatening me again. Eventually you may actually get what you appear to be seeking — a group of folks who agree with your views.

    Who will be the next to go?

    Actually, when I grow up, I want to be an old woman, I want to be an old woman with lots of opinions, one who cheers and jeers from the sidelines – with no real insider information, someone with the self imnportance that my views matter and have no responsbilities for any of them . I want to be like an old women, who can go after a politician for his looks, his or her personality, his or her political ambitions vice policy.

  14. pwctaxpayer, you aren’t in the position to tell anyone to calm down. Actually, it appears you have had a sex change operation, based on other remarks you have made in the past. but not so nice recovery.

    Now just who is it you think has gone? You understand, do you not, that the decision who does and does not post here is entirely the responsiblity of Elena and me.

    So let’s see, do you want to be the ONLY person who is an active member of this blog to be put in time out? You have been begging for months now. It would just be you. No one else who is a regular has to go to moderation first. Its actually rather lonely. Let’s give it one more try. Just go by the rules and be polite. That is all anyone is asking. No one wants you to change your opinions. It is you who have to live with them.

    And please be reminded that I was more than willing to discuss this problem in private.

  15. Swooping Buzzard

    As an old buzzard, albeit male, I’m offended by PWC. I don’t think any of us older people need to put up with slurs.

  16. punchak

    Darn tootin’, Swoop!

    Old buzzards and old buzzardines don’t need to put up with slurs from ANYbody! So, PWC, just cool it. In case you didn’t know, unless you have an early accident, you’ll also be O L D and “without insider information”& have “self importance”.

    Come to think of it, you have some so called “old woman” attributes already.

  17. marinm

    It’s an interesting piece and should put politicians all over on notice that what they do yesterday may come back to bite them tommorow.

    Raising taxes yesterday and today will not help Mr. Stewart tommorow for higher office. Look to Mr. Herrity’s crushing defeat to see how raising taxes as a Supervisor can impact a future run for office.

    I think Mr. Stewart is overall a good guy and he may have taken the eye off the ball (low PWC taxes, smaller govt, smart development, etc.) for a moment.

    If any member of the BOCS could crush the county unions I’d be a fanboy for life.

  18. Actually, Mr. Herrity only voted for an increased tax RATE, not higher taxes. He did that to compensate for the bottom dropping out of the real estate market. Corey Stewart also voted to raise the TAX RATE here in Prince William County. Same reason. He had to do it. The TAX RATE is that important in and of itself, without looking at the tax assessments.

    By the way, Corey Stewart was RIGHT and CORRECT to vote to raise the tax rate. I would never criticize him for doing that.

  19. Ok, marin, game on here. what county unions do you want to crush? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? How is any county union possibly hurting you?

  20. marinm

    I of course disagree. How does the value of my townhouse or SFH translate into increased or decreased services from a county level? Should that rate not stay consistant and not my actual payout? If the rate goes up by 6% does that mean as a homeowner I’m suddenly using 6% more county services? I just don’t see the sense in it. And, I’m on the record for having voted for Fimian over Herrity.

    Any union that represents county workers/employees hurts me as a taxpayer.

  21. Then you voted for a liar. He and his campaign knew damn well what the situation was across the state. Fairfax County needed x number of dollars to run things. If the real estate assessments were 30% less, then the rate had to go up. This is a simple math problem.

    As for unions, that is pure BS. No union hurts you in any way. Back up your statement with facts. Perhaps the county needs stronger unions to protect employees from people like you who would take away their pensions and reduce their wages, while all along sitting back and enjoying your own luxuries.

    I have never seen myself as much of a union person until I started having this discussion with you, marin and you have made a believer out of me.

  22. marinm

    To clarify, which liar did I vote for? I mean, lets be honest I’m voting for a politician so to say that I’m not voting for a liar would be a lie to myself. But, who are you saying is a liar and please also back up that statement with facts.

    Now, to my first para, I don’t think you understand what I said so I’ll restate. You mentioned that the TAX RATE was raised and because it’s the RATE that was up’d and not the actual dollar amount that it’s somehow better.. I would like for YOU to justify how a rate can increase by 6% (number I pulled from the hind quarters) if I’m not (or others) have no up’d our use of county services by that same 6%. Explain that math to me please as it’s simple math. Bonus points if you use math investigations to explain it in squares, circles, oranges, and twinkees.

    Unions hurt taxpayers. I’ve shown that before and I believe that you ignore those posts or concentrate on other posts. But, simply put a public union cannot exist without taxpayers — do you agree? Ok, as compensation of the unions employees goes up who pays for it? Yup, taxpayers. So, what helps unionized govt workers hurts taxpayers and vice versa.

    Examining the VEA’s legislative agenda is very telling in terms of the cost to the taxpayers.

    http://www.veanea.org/legislative/leg-agenda-2009-10.html

    On a report looking at the ‘backsliding’ on teachers pay at http://www.veanea.org/top-stories/pay-2010-02-05.html we find:

    Fairfax County/City paid the highest beginning salary ($44,389) for a candidate with a BA. Number one in the other BA benchmarks were: 5 years (Arlington, $52,378); 10 years (Arlington, $63,663); 15 years (Alexandria, $70,115); 20 years (Fairfax County/City, $78,449); 25 years (Prince William, $89,610); 30 years (Prince William, $89,610).
    According to the study’s calculation of “career earnings,” an educator who goes through BA steps 1-7 and MA steps 8-31 in Arlington would earn nearly $2.4 million over her career. That’s the highest in the state. The lowest paid would be an educator more through the same steps in Grayson County, who would earn approximately 1.2 million.

  23. Marin, I already took you through it. The Fimian campaign attacked Herrity for raising taxes. He didn’t.

    Let’s put it another way….what if none of the Fairfax supervisors had voted to to raise the tax rate. What would have happened if they had just left things status quo?

    Start asking yourself if they would have money for schools, police officers, fire and rescue?

    Now, let’s take on those rascally unions. In the first place, the state organization you are calling a union is the Virginia Education Association. It is a professional organization.

    Show me the binding arbitration. Show me the teacher strikes. You can’t. they don’t exist. You are assuming that teachers would be working for free if it weren’t for the VEA?
    They might put you on the payroll for promoting that kind of thinking.

    Why is it that you want to put schools, police officers and other govt workers out of business?

    In Virginian, unions do not hurt taxpayers. Marin, you really need to look at the limits on unions in Virginia and the rest of the south. You have substantiated nothing. You have shown teacher pay in some locations. So what.

    After 30 years, a person with a BA makes $90? So what. Do you want people to work for free. What are you thinking. Why do you think you should make more money than a teacher? Do you think you are more special? More worthy? PUH-Leez

    You should be thanking a teacher for your free education instead of thinking up ways to take money from them. Shame on you.

  24. marinm

    Thanking them for a free education? No ma’am I will not. There is NOTHING free about education in PWC. I pay thousands of dollars every year to this county and the day you have the power to excuse me from paying those taxes then we can start talking about things being ‘free’.

    I did notice you avoided the math question. I didn’t expect a response.

    I do find it amusing that you defined for me what VEA is (thank you, obviously my public education made me stupid as you had to define it for me) and I had used links from that website…. You also fall into the same line of thinking by calling it a union later on in your own arguement. I think for the sake of this debate we can use the generic label of union and not confuse it by discussing the multitude of government unions that seek to to redistribute more from me to enrich themselves.

    Again, it’s a simple concept. Public employees are paid for by the taxes levied on me. To increase those salaries or benefits more has to be taken from my pocket. The better the union does the worse it is for me as a taxpayer.

    It may be unpopular for me to say so but a 1st grade teacher with 25 years of service making over 100K with salary and benefits should be retired from our system. It’s just not cost effective to keep that employee when we can hire a new one in for 40K. That’s the kind of decisions that teachers are insulated from by working in the public vs. private sector.

    Ever see a McDonald’s cashier pulling 80K for 25 years of service?

  25. Your education was free to you. It was paid for by the tax paying adults in the county. Now you are paying for someone else’s. but it cost you nothing to obtain an educaton.

    I never called VEA a union. Go back and reread what I said. There are unions in Virginia that other state and local workers belong to. Therefore I included the word union. And unions do not set pay. Why are you being so stubborn?

    What math question did you ask? I saw no math question. I saw smart ass. You also wouldn’t know math investigations if it bit you on the end of your nose.

    As for the first grade teacher making $100k after 25 years….that all depends on her educational level and what the going rate is for teachers in that jurisdiction. That’s what its going to cost in the very near future to have highly trained people (in accordance to NCLB) in the classroom educating 25-30 students per day at that level.

    McDonald’s cashiers are unskilled labor. Why would you compare them to a verteran first grade teacher whose job it is to teach young minds to read? Why do you think that person should make less money than you do? Let’s personalize this. You apparently have all sorts of free time during the day. Most first grade teachers I have known have bad kidneys after 25 years. They don’t even have the time to go to the bathroom. They earn every penny they bring home. If you aren’t good, you don’t stay in that game…..

  26. Virginia Government Employees Association: These folks probably don’t like being called a union either.

    http://www.vgea.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3493

    I would think of them as an advocacy organization or lobbyist.

    I am glad they are out there because there are people like YOU out there, Marin.

    You want it all for free. People don’t come without a price tag. But you knew that. No, it isn’t ok to be a selfish lout on this blog. You are shooting off your mouth now and not backing up anything you are saying so lets just end it.

    It is horribly off topic, has nothing do to with Corey, and I doubt he is against the county employees. If you have some more insults to hurl at public employees then please put them on the open thread.

  27. marinm

    That you’re arguement has turned to calling me names rather than debating your position means that I’ve clearly beat you. Your welcome.

  28. No, I am tired of listening to someone who simply throws out remarks and doesn’t back them up. I have said you are selfish. You have told me you are proud of being selfish. I find that an offensive value.

    No, you have not won. You facts are wrong and state and local people will still have their professional organizations to protect them from people like you.

    I am not going to debate people’s livelihoods. I am not going to advocate waiting until some poor cop or teacher gets 20 years under their belt and finally starts making enough money so they can even live in the county and then some selfish lout pulls the rug out from under them and says, oh we can get 2 of you for the price of one.

    If you value people and their skills…the human element, then you know that a first year cop or teachers is light years behind the 20 year counterpart. You want a resident performing brain surgery on you?

    I find this entire devaluing of people to be incredibly offensive. Mariin, keep kidding yourself. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing….Alexander Pope. In your case it is only giving you a very false sense of security…sort of like that gun….

  29. Censored bybvbl

    Marinm, I’m sure a teacher or two whose salary was paid by others – your free education – discussed “your” and “you’re”. 😉

    In which field are you working? Do we need to boycott a company or product because employees apparently have time to blog, blog, blog during the day? Are we overpaying for something? Could you be doing twice the work or perhaps work at a reduced salary? Could we import someone to do your work more cheaply? See how that old game goes. There are many fields in the private sector that damn near have a monopoly and we, as consumers, don’t have many choices. Of course, if you’re being paid as a politcal operative, that’s another thing entirely.

  30. marinm

    Censored, they did and I didn’t pay much attention aside from doing the minimum required. I even elected to remove myself from Advanced English to do less work as language isn’t my strong suit.

    I work in IT, IT Security to be more specific. And, I will surely answer the rest of your questions if you pay me the same courtesey. See, that’s the rub is it not? You threaten me (and don’t say you didn’t Censored..) I should be able to respond in kind – right?

    So, post your information; your address, your work location and your name. I will post the exact same information in kind – if that’s the game you wish to play.

    So, Censored I leave it up to you. Post your information and I will do the same. We can boycott each others companies or contact each others bosses to talk about salary reductions or fitness to be employed.

    I feel very confident in my employ and providing the above information publicly. And I could argue that worse case we both are terminated and that’s less money going to the county unions. 🙂

  31. Censored did NOT threaten you, Marin. She posed questions. Unless you all have exchanged emails and there is an exchange I don’t see, I see no threats.

    marin, either prove your allegations about county unions or stop talking about it.

    No private information will be posted on this blog. It will be taken down immediately.

  32. marinm

    “Do we need to boycott a company or product because employees apparently have time to blog, blog, blog during the day?”

    Quoted from above. I sense a double standard.

    I refuse to answer your points MH as you’ve broken your own blog rules and I refuse to get into a name calling debate. I am above that.

  33. Marin, I don’t see why you don’t understand that suggesting that people have their pay cut, their pension desolved, is offensive. There are many people on this blog who are public employees or are married to public employees. You have come on here and boldly suggested that these people have pay cuts of 20-25%, lose their pension, and all sorts of other measures because you don’t want to pay taxes.

    Meanwhile, you smugly sit back and protect your own little piece of the world, somehow casting yourself above those public servants who, somewhere along the line, have made your life a little easier.

    I think as you age, you will learn there are some things you control and other things come along and kick you in the ass and those things are very often just beyond your control. There are no easy answers but suggesting that local, state and federal workers are somehow children of a lesser god is simply not going to go any further on this blog. It is offensive and these people work just as long and hard as you do. They should not be kicked to the curb because of hard economic times.

    Right now, these people have retirement programs and you are going to pay for them. No one says you have to like it. The public probably pays for yours too. Does your company provide federal services? Defense contractor? Your retirement is just as much on the ‘taxpayer’s teat’ (shudder) as the next guy. It is just more layered and less obvious, but just as much publically funded.

  34. Censored bybvbl

    Marinm, touchy, are you? I don’t care where you work. My BIL works IT security as well. I merely thought that you should consider that private sector employees may be overpaid in some one else’s opinion. And while my BIL is still employed (his company has let about 50% of its staff go in the past 3 or 4 years) and paid well, he’s always looking for the axe to drop. But he doesn’t look at the members of his family – including his schoolteacher wife – and hope that the pensions for which they’ve worked hard and long would disappear. He doesn’t have pension envy.

  35. marinm

    Censored, touchy? No. 🙂

    However, if your BIL is non-union oriented and is an IT Security guy maybe we can touch base. Our company has open positions (as your husband knows unemployment in IT Security is less than 1%) and/or I know other companies that are looking [IT Sec is a small community especially in the federal sector]. MH has my email address if you ever need to contact me regarding employment.

    I’m of two minds in terms of my salary. On one hand I think I’m grossly overpaid. I like what I do, I get enjoyment from it, I’m good at it and I’m published (bad grammar and all). While I might not be an ‘industry expert’ in the sense that I have name recognition I like that within certain circles I do. So, I could also argue that I’m underpaid but at the end of the day as a free man I can choose to accept or decline the salary and benefits offered. I can choose to work here or find employment elsewhere. I might get a higher salary elsewhere but may have to deal with more work, more of a commute, unknown level of expertise from coworkers, etc. While direct and indirect compensation are obviously important (most important if we’re to be honest) other factors do play out. That I work less than 10 miles on a reverse commute doesn’t hurt things and offsets a higher salary in DC for example.

    WRT retirement I’m pretty much stuck in the middle like most office drones. I get a 401k with upto a 6% match on a yearly basis. We have people in this office that get a 10% match because they work for a different company. It’s a nice benefit but they also have to deal with other things that for me doesn’t make that 4% worth it.

    Regardless, I have no input (nor should I) on your husbands salary because I don’t pay it. With respect to military, county, state and federal government salaries I do pay those salaries and as FA pointed out before he left this blog — we should all be concerned about the massive increases in salaries, retirement, benefits and numbers of employees being hired into public service. Politics aside the numbers just can’t sustain it. So I share the same frustration that he had that people are ignoring the issue because they see it as one where I’m kicking a teacher or a cop while he’s down. I can’t really change that persception but it’s not true. If people could look beyond the emotional and look at the numbers I think they’ll see that I’m not as mean-spirited as people might like to portray me as.

    I’ve posted what my social security payment will be (assuming it’s still around and was in 2010 dollars vice 2043), that I have a company pension, my 401K(s) and whatever savings I can hide under the mattress from the government. I don’t have envy towards her retirement — I just feel that it’s grossly out of whack with what private industry provides and that instead of pensions for public service we really need to move those employees to 401Ks.

    For example, the 100K 1st grade teacher I spoke of above. Would you rather continue to pay her/his salary for another 20 years (and benefits) or for that salary you could hire 3 teachers. As you know from your BIL those decisions happen everyday. The moment that I can’t bring profit to my employers I will be terminated. With public service it’s not about revenue generation but cost containment. So, I could argue that I’m actually FOR hiring MORE teachers but at a certain salary it makes more sense to terminate that teacher and hire a new (cheaper) one.

    Would the VEA support that? 😉

  36. Censored bybvbl

    Marinm, my BIL has to rely on his 401K and anything he’s able to sock away for retirement. My sister, his wife, is a public school teacher who will get a state (and county?) pension. His salary is easily double hers although she’s worked a decade longer in her field than he has his. Her benefits – the pension(s) being one – are merely part of her compensation. Her husband has avoided most defense contract work but his company has provided IT security for major national (and perhaps one international) corporations. When the corporations tighten their belts, particularly the banks, they’ve moved many of the security functions in-house. Some of his co-workers have had to train personnel at the expense of their own jobs. So far, he’s one of the few employees left on the east coast. He works from home with the exceptional trip to NYC or the west coast. He has quite a few contacts so I don’t really worry about him.

    It’s not as easy as having three younger teachers for the price of one older, experienced teacher. Teaching is one field that a lot of women my age (older baby boomers) entered. Women became teachers just as they became nurses – there were few fields open to them. Now many experienced workers in both fields are about to retire and – surprise – there aren’t enough replacements. Women have many more options.

    Why not just replace every one with younger employees? Kids right out of college probably have better computer skills than 30 or 40 year olds. Replace those old geezers and hire the kids!!! They’d think 80 grand was great. Get rid of those money-grubbers pulling down a couple hundred thousand and get three or four kids for the money!

  37. The VEA would never support firing older, more experienced teachers. No one with a brain would want a a first year teacher to replace an experienced veteran teacher with success under his or her belt. Experience in the professions does count. Rookies aren’t seasoned.

    You mentioned the feds…your company deals with the feds? Who pays for the services your company provides? The feds? Your company bills the feds for goods or services. Part of that billing includes your salary and pension. Its sort of hard to escape it.

    And actually, no, you don’t pay any of those people’s salaries, nor do I. I pay my state local and federal taxes. Those jurisdictions get the money and they do what they need to do with the money. So no, you and I don’t pay their salaries unless, of course, we are speaking metaphorically.

  38. Censored, pension envy…I had never heard that one. Freud? Is there a cure for pension envy? ho ho ho

  39. marinm

    Censored,

    You can’t discriminate based on age (that’ll get you or your company in trouble) but if a human resource is expensive it’s permissable to replace that resource with a cheaper one. So, assuming you have a 100K resource and I can buy 3x 30K resources its of course to my advantage (assuming I have enough work for them and can turn a profit on them).

    In prior employment I managed a SOC where we hired IT workers in at 19-27K to do 10hx4 (3d off) to do low level security monitoring and we treated that side of the house much like McDonalds. We managed churn knowing that after 6-12m of hands on experience they could double there salary elsewhere. So, we didn’t invest much in terms of training and just made it known that we had plenty of jobs available for college kids, high school kids with apptitude or those with some computer skills that could read english and learn quickly.

    So, I guess what I’m saying is depending on how you flip this pancake you can do it and do it well. Sure it takes more on the management and recruitment side but on the long term we win out by not having the extreme outlays of 50K+ salaries for tasks/work that can be completed by someone at the entry level (this goes for teachers and IT workers).

    We really need to look at retirement benefits going forward. Understood that workers have been or are currently employed with a guaranteed pension. I don’t want to take it away from those workers as I see a promise like that as a contract that shouldn’t be broken. But, new employees should be moved to a 401K and should invest there money with a county provided match upto 6% (standard in industry). It’s not about taking money out of a 70 year old retiree but facing up to the reality that it just can’t work in the future. We have time here in Virginia but you look at places like CA where the school districts are literally declaring bankcruptcy. It’s less painful to do it this way to wait till it’s too late and then take away that 70 year olds retirement – all of it.

    I don’t disagree that women have more options but I’m surprised we’re looking at this from a gender perspective. Why can’t men make good teachers? Women now outpace men with respect to degrees granted. If teacher salaries have never been higher in our history and less people are going into teaching doesn’t that indicate it’s not a money issue?

    I don’t really have an issue with a younger person replacing me. The younger workforce may have skills that I lack and as I get older I may be less inclined to stay on the bleeding edge as I used to. I may be relegated into taking a management position or making my own company or finding a whole new field (some counties seek experienced professionals to try to entice them into teaching!). That’s just life. I can’t look over my shoulder worried that some high school kid can do my job better than me. If it happens, it happens. My company would probably be silly not to replace me with you a cheaper, younger model. I know that in the back of my head as my compensation increases so to does the liklihood that I’ll be replaced by someone that’ll offer to do my job for less. That’s how the market works (outside the safety of govt work that is).

    MH, again I have no brain. Would you tolerate any of the things you’ve said to me today being said of you or Elena? I have no issue with debating you once you chill out and upscale your level of debate.

  40. Vigilant Vulture

    And I thought the focus of thread was to be Corey. Better luck next time. 😉

  41. Marin, you have been and continue to be offensive. Do not say another word on this thread about your ideas about public employees. I will remove the comments.

    There will be no more discussion with me over it. If you want to talk about it go to the open thread and hope that someone on here enjoys beating their head on a brick wall.

  42. VV, let me know if this continues.

    Meanwhile, go ahead.

  43. Kevin

    Cory is no more than a modern day “Tail Gunner Joe”. There is nothing to fear from the immigrant population but the Coreys of this country play to imaginary fears. I am worried about rednecks packing guns in my local bar not hard working people that came here, like we all did, to make a better life.

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