Democracy, the old-fashioned way
Democracy, the old-fashioned way

[UPDATE: At least one other blog has launched a character assassination of some of us here on Moonhowlings. Actually, I haven’t been sent a single word that is true. That’s the sad part. How can people be so self-righteous and yet be so incorrect in their assumptions?]

The Torches and Pitchforks gathering at Manassas City Chambers scheduled for tomorrow night @ 7 pm just might have to take to the parking lot.  The Manassas City Council will be holding a special meeting at 6:30 in the chambers.  It will be difficult for 2 meetings to be held at the same place at the same time.  Citizens time will be held and the same standards as any other Council meeting will be adhered to. 

This meeting will follow a closed session with attorneys scheduled for 5:30 p.m. 

Since this topic  cropped up last week, I have read and heard the word ‘Christian’ thrown around quite a bit.  That’s getting a little old.  Plenty of good Christian people, as well as people of other faiths, will be in attendance at the City Council meeting supporting an upscale adult boutique.  Some of the politicians who want to trumpet their religion to their base should be just as worried about dissing those folks who don’t consider themselves part of  the Conservative Christian movement. 

Hopefully there will be no witch hunts Tuesday night, even in the parking lot.  Area residents need to examine what really constitutes pornography.  Some folks need to rephrase how they say things.  Personal sexual tools/toys/implements or whatever a person choses to call them are just that–PERSONAL.  We don’t want government in every aspect of our lives.  We don’t want to have to go to dark alleys to buy personal products.  We don’t want to have to ask the pharmacists for condoms like used to happen in the old days and we don’t want to have to go across state lines to have access to birth control like my mother had to do in the 60’s when she lived in New Jersey.

Those who want to see something dirty will probably be very disappointed in KK Temptations.  It isn’t going to be a porno shop–you know, one of those places men in trench coats are seen going into.  If that’s what you think is coming to town, think again. 

Its fine to be uptight and repressive about sexual matters if that is what your religion tells you do to.  Its even ok to skip the Song of Solomon when reading the bible, if that’s what your minister, priest or rabbi wants.  However, understand that some very good and decent people out there don’t necessarily agree with you.

48 Thoughts to “Torches and Pitchforks”

  1. Wolverine

    7 pm, Tuesday, 7 September 2010. The Battle of Third Manassas. Don’t miss it! If you thought that slavery and the preservation of the Union could cause a mighty conflict, wait until you see what happens when vibrators and dildos are the prizes of victory!

  2. You are assuming which side will win. It might be the scarlet letters and the crosses.

    Stay tuned.

    Dildo is such an ugly word. You know, I have never seen one but I think that falls in to the category of ‘I would know it if I saw it.’

  3. Slowpoke Rodriguez

    I want to hear this. Please tell me the more politically correct term. I’d like to know. As you already know, “rubber weenie” is my term of choice. How ’bout “mechanized trouser snake”?

  4. Emma

    I would like to ask my City Council why the asphalt on my street is so badly cracked and overgrown with weeds after well over 10 years of neglect, while two private Old Town businesses now have streetside dining at my expense. And why this little shop has their full attention, but the old pleasure shop on Rt 28 is just fine for the nearby trailer park.

    Repave my street, please. Although I guess it’s easy to neglect because it’s not close enough to Old Town to tarnish the sterling image there.

  5. IVAN

    Perhaps some of the $200,000 the City ponied up for next years Civil War 150th Anniversery celebration could have paved your street.

  6. Lafayette

    Right you are IVAN!! Thank goodness the BoS put their money into the CVB and not some recent “Johnny come lately” non-profit organization that wants to host a couple of Gray-Blue Balls during next year’s commemeration.

    Our street looked just like that until last year. It was so nice this summer to drive down the road and feel like I was driving down a pasture. Good luck. Obviously, the side streets aren’t as important to the City Council as Old Town.

  7. Lafayette

    oops..It was so nice this summer to drive down the road and *NOT*feel like I was driving down a pasture.

  8. Slow, I wasn’t expecting you to be politically correct. I was just commenting on how the word sounds…and I do wonder what the etymololgy is but…please…don’t tell me.

    Your politically correct choices weren’t politically anything…which is nice for a change. I did laugh.

  9. If I thought the Google search wouldn’t put my computer and family room at risk, I would love to find the origin of the word “dildo.” Please, will someone do the leg work (heh heh)?

    This conversation is bound to get as bad as the one on Jiffy Lube Live.

    Anyway, why is Christianity being brought up? Do you have to be a Christian to oppose the shop’s location? And just because people don’t want a sex shop in Old Town, does that mean they are uptight? I resent both of those implications, thank you. : )

    Why can’t KK’s just move the shop? Put it further down Main Street or just before you enter Old Town. There are tons of empty business spaces there. Are the owners choosing this space just for the free advertising they are getting from PO’d people?

  10. Moon-howler :
    YYou know, I have never seen one but I think that falls in to the category of ‘I would know it if I saw it.’

    You have NEVER seen a dildo, MH? Come on! Fess up.

  11. @Moon-howler
    Well I have, which is why I don’t want my KIDS to see one when they are on their way to an acting class!

  12. Lafayette

    I think I’ll wear some devil horns to the meeting tomorrow night. }:

  13. Pinko, things like that are not put out in the front window.

    Lafayette, I have an extra pair if you need them. Someone else from over my way will be going. I doubt if he will be wearing horns though.

  14. Lafayette

    Another option would be to wear my witch hat that plays Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead and ride on over on by broom.

  15. Except you don’t have a dead witch….

    The broom seems ready to soar though.

  16. Back to pinko, why should kk temp have to move? There is probably a lease involved. If they have a tasteful display window I don’t see where the merchandise inside should bother anyone.

    As for your question about Christianity, that seems to be a big prerequisite for people when they oppose the shop. There seem to be 3 types of people: those who support, those who totally oppose, and those who do not support the location only.

    There are also a bunch of “I believe in the free market but”…folks out there.

  17. Wolverine

    I’m just wondering how you make a window display of sex toys “tasteful.” Well, maybe if it looked like the vibrator counter at Macy’s with ad signs promising to relieve your aches and pains………

  18. Lafayette

    I wonder if those that oppose this shop are aware of all of the free PR they have given this shop before it even opens it’s doors.

    Bottom line if the city doesn’t want this type of store in Old Town then they need to amend their Comp Plan and/or create an ordinance against such shops in Old Town. However, there’s nothing on the books that prohibits this LEGAL business on Battle St.

  19. Bloomers and corsets from the Civil War era — and selling the undergarments for reenactors — would make a fine display.

  20. @Wolverine, I expect lingerie or lotions might be in the front window. There are plenty of things that might be found in a shop like KK Temptations that are not distasteful. Tthere are sorts of mood enhancers that are sold in shops that sell erotica. Nice pillow cases, fluffy robes, lingerie, calendars, books of poems, etc etc.

    You men are missing our point….we are not talking about a men’s porno shop here. women don’t ‘function’ the same way males do.

    Cindy, what a great idea! When did pantaloons become fashion?

  21. Lafayette, I don’t think that occurs to people. Look at how many protester continue to wave signs up near Amethyst Health Center because they provide abortion services. Free advertising. The owners would have a fit if all the protesters went away. Same thing.

    I see from information that you sent me that people still think there is a meeting held by Jackson Miller tonight. I heard that the only meeting during that time period is the City Council Meeting. Is there going to be a show-down between the City and the Miller Time people?

  22. Lafayette

    Does seem like a conflict in times and the space. This should be interesting to say the least. At least with FIOS we can watch the City Council meeting over here in the county. I think I’d much rather watch this one play out in person. I’ll see how today goes.

  23. Oh that’s right! Thank you! I had forgotten about the advantage of it being the city council instead of your rank and file pitchforks and torches meet and shriek.

    Now what channel will you be watching it on and does anyone have the comcast number?

    Moonhowlings will have representatives there but I don’t feel we have standing as an organization. Not city residents. Howler Jr has standing but has to work. However, our city contributors will have the force!

  24. Wolverine

    Hmmm, does this mean that the Moonhowlings. net is making the cause of sex shops a part of their platform? There certainly does seem to be some intimate (no pun intended) knowledge here of how these things work. All except for our Pinko, who sounds like she might be tempted to pull a Carrie Nation caper if that shop does open for business. But even then…if, as Moon suggests, there might be volumes of love poetry in the display window….

    Maybe Moon is right and this is a woman rather than a man thing. Just how does a man feel, however, when Mama brings home a bag of sex toys, hands them over to Hubby, and says “Use these.” Like the response might be: “Geez, wasn’t I good enough on my own?!!!” This is sort of like the Industrial Revolution when the denizens of the home cottage industries lost their livelihoods to the factory machines.

    BTW, Moon, the response from Mrs. W to that previous question on Christmas gifts is “Absolutely!” (Best decision of Wolverine’s life — over 40 years ago.)

  25. Elena

    The beauty of America is that no one will FORCE you to use a sex toy. Not your thing, no problem, don’t use one. Don’t want to buy from the store, no problem, don’t buy anything.

    Rule of Law, Rule of Law blather now being invoked. These women filled out the application and deserve to have a chance at the free market, they are doing NOTHING illegal. I personally find preventing women from getting a legal abortion more morally obscene than consensual sex! Someone telling ME what I can and cannot do with my own body is MORE obscene than motion lotion or some other sex paraphanalia between two consenting adults! I find WAR more obscene than any adult boutique geared towards women could EVER be. I find calling children parasites and promoting intolerance towards people with brown skin MORE obscene than ANY adult boutique. I guess, in my world, there are WAY more important issues that effect my world than an adult boutique.

  26. Elena

    Posting as Pinko :@Moon-howler Well I have, which is why I don’t want my KIDS to see one when they are on their way to an acting class!

    If you don’t want you kids to see sex toys, don’t take them into the store. The owners, from what they have said about their intentions, want to promote healthy sexuality. They have no intentions of having the big XXX on the window with a huge larger than life vibrator!

  27. Emma

    @Lafayette Speaking of FIOS, we seem to be the only neighborhood in the City that does not have it. Number two on my list of things the City Council could be taking care of once they stop thinking about sex toys.

  28. Emma

    By the way, has anyone been to Walmart lately? They have an interesting selection of, ummm, “personal lubricants.” I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED, I tell you! What about the children?

  29. Nope. We are for rule of law. The woman opening the shop followed all the rules to a T. She filled out the appropriate paper work. The City did nothing wrong. If the City doesn’t want adult boutiques or underwear shops, then they need to have ordinances that prohibit such things. You can’t do it after the fact. Naturally, KK would be grandmothered in.

    I don’t know how men feel. I can’t imagine they would mind if that is what their lady wants. Given the differences in men and women’s physiology, some might welcome a toy or two. I am glad Mrs. W would like you with a bow on your head and gift wrapped. snicker.

    In general-
    People make the mistake assuming that because some of us are supporting a tasteful adult boutique, that we are promoting ‘porno.’ Not at all. In fact, I HATE porno films. And when I say porno, I mean what *I* consider porno which is pretty much a lot of stuff. However, I don’t judge the entire shop by the adult dvd section. I wouldn’t expect to see movies playing inside the shop or in the front window. If they were, I would certainly speak to the shop owner. I have walked out of music stores over playing music I think is obscene and written to the home company.

    I hope that clears up that little misconception.

  30. Some of us are disappointed because the City of Manassas didn’t have its cameras rolling.

    Elena and I did not go because we felt while we have a community opinion, we don’t have standing. I hope that all City folks get to speak before the outsiders are given a mic.

  31. Lafayette

    I didn’t know FIOS wasn’t citywide yet. My goodness, what’s the delay. The next wave of technology will be rolling out at this point. I’ve had FIOS for close to three years now. I was the first in upper WG to get FIOS. I had HAD IT with Comcost’s crap.

  32. Lafayette

    Here’s the initial article from the paper. I wonder if the City had ever had that kind of turnout for Citizens’ Time. It was standing room only.

  33. Reports back from the kinky front indicate that torches were glowing and the pitchforks were sharpened. The crowd was older, in some cases real old. Everyone I talked to who was there said that many of those who spoke out really had no idea what kind of store they were protesting. Even the newspaper called it a novelty shop which seems to trivialize the merchandise.

    Someone reported a dude with a laptop who thought he knew more than the Supreme Court and all the justices. Forget Bob Bendall….compared to Mr. Laptop. The hand out from Mr. Bendall basically outlined that nothing could be done to stop the store from opening. It was perfectly legal.

    If the owners break laws or have materials that would be considered obscene in a court of law, then they could be fined. The city can regulate window displays to protect minors.


  34. What did people think was going to happen?

    I have heard some ugly stuff. I have heard that people’s pictures will be taken as they enter. That might just be a good way to get sued by not only the person whose picture was taken by also by the shop owner. Anything that is done to hurt her business is harassment.

    I have also read that the City intends to do inspections. Are they planning on harassing her with overly frequent inspections? That was someone else’s interpretation, not anything from the City.

    If the City of Manassas is going to put on catfish airs regarding the historic dictrict, perhaps they might want to clean up the Grant Avenue 7-11 and the Old Town Inn. As long as those 2 places continue with their current customers, no one has a leg to stand on as far as protecting children from bad sights.

    So what was the point of the citizens time? My hope is that opinions aren’t formed by the number of people who turned out. Many county people stayed home because they didn’t have standing. Additionally, people rarely come out in as great of numbers FOR something as they do AGAINST something.

    I still haven’t figured out why all the hoopla or what the objective. Out of respect for someone I basically like, I am not going to expound on my theory. :mrgreen:

  35. I need to eat crow on one thing. I had something reversed. There is no formal definition of obscenity. There is formal definition of pornography–

    According to the hand out from Mr. Bendall: Pornography refers to any book, movie, etc, that is sexually explicit and intended to be sexually arousing. A pornographic item is not obscene if it is not prurient or if it does not go substancially beyond customary limits of candor, or if it has serious literary, artistic or political or scientific value.

  36. @Emma
    Kids generally don’t know what KY is, Emma. 🙂

  37. It’s not just about display windows. Kids, especially curious, older ones, know a reputation when they hear one. How is the owner going to distinguish an 18 year old from a 16 year old when kids look so mature now? In fact, I know several middle school kids who can pass for adults! Is the owner going to card everyone who comes in?

  38. Censored bybvbl

    As a County resident, I attended some of the meeting but didn’t offer my two cents. I came away with the impression that the store opening is a done deal – it met the necessary requirements. Now, hopefully, the store will prosper or follow the path of the two prior short-lived stores. The Puritans were left with this crumb – the store couldn’t become a public nuisance or sell obscene material. The Ps will have their microscopes – and probably cameras – handy looking for all things evil. They’d better look at the bars, the 7-11, the motel, and fast food joints, the wine festival, etc. so as to avoid harassing this business.

    The crowd was older than average and – to be catty – is probably no longer in the market for that store’s items. If nothing else, this may prod the City Council into a discussion of what is or isn’t appropriate for businesses in Old Town.

    One striking difference that I noticed between the way the City and County conducts Citizens Time is that no applause or loud comments of support or disapproval are allowed at BOCS meetings. I prefer it that way although I’ve been part of a group that has used clapping to make a point at a BOCS meeting. (We were reminded that we weren’t allowed to do that, but our point had been made.) I think individuals should make their points and people can evaluate those points on their merit. I’ve rarely found supporters to outnumber naysayers at meetings because they are not as motivated to attend – unless it’s a plea for a child or older adult related service. Our political process is driven/motivated by negativity and fear so these meetings are no different.

    I’m curious about why Jackson Miller led this particular witch hunt. Was it a favor to the Council or a slap in their faces? Why is a state delegate trying to take the lead on a local issue? Did he do more damage to the City’s reputation than good? Is a redistricting in his future? Is he ramping it up for a Senate race?

  39. I guess only Jackson can answer that.

    Wasn’t a BOCS supervisor there also?

    And who was that masked man in the parking lot…Mr. Make Over.

    My concern is the harassment people are talking about. That could end up costing the city even if it allows it and doesn’t directly participate. Not good.

    ARe children allowed at the wine festival? Just asking.

  40. pinko, Do you accept that there are 16 and 17 year old kids that are sexually active? (I don’t mean approve …I mean acknowledge it is happening)

    I suppose sexually active people aren’t going to learn anything new in an adult shop. And if they are buying fancy condoms, GREAT!

    If a gang of teenagers came in, that is pretty easy to spot. They have teenager written all over them. Throw them out. They act silly. A good security camera IN THE STORE should prevent that from happening. (I am going to call your mother)

    If the sexually active ones come in, I would contribute to a plain (as opposed to fancy) condom jar for them to help themselves. I am all for preventing unwanted/unintended pregnancy. And while I am at it, (stepping up on my soap box) anyone who seriously opposes abortion should also be supportive of contraception for sexually active people. Not getting pregnant in the first places stops the need for abortion.

  41. According to my son who works in the city, there were lots of people talking today who said they wouldn’t want anyone to see them going in to the store now. That is just wrong. They were older people.

    This is reminding me of when my grandmother, who lived to be 105, lived in her retirement home over in the valley. The entire retirement home was all atwitter because some old man had been caught in bed with some old woman. My mother was telling me this story in outrage. I asked her how old they were and if the old woman had said it was ok.

    The answer came out 85 or 90 and Yes, (with much indignation) she wanted him there.

    That is when I turned on my mother and told her when you were 90, you should get to sleep with who you want to sleep with. Of all the gall of those people. they were trying to throw the old man out.

    This happened sometimes in the mid to late 1980’s. When does it end? When do people stop sticking their nose into other people’s sex lives?

    My mother, to her credit, saw my point of view and I think had a talk with my grandmother to stop the gossip on her end.

  42. The torches and pitchforks are out in full force on the dark side. Apparently one jerk in particular wants to castigate Elena. He thinks she was at the meeting Tuesday night. She was not, not that it was that person’s business. When he finished with her, he took out after Lafayette and me. I was not at the meeting either.

    I don’t even know what a secular progressive is. I think that is one of those scary words…that means…’she thinks differently than I do.’ Yea, we do think differently. My entire family thinks differently, thank goodness. I am not quite sure why I am a hypocrite, but ok. I have never claimed to be anything I am not. but oh well….You have the rest of your facts wrong. I see no reason for your opinion to be based on anything logical. Meanwhile….the jerk owes Elena and also Lafayette an apology.

    Meanwhile, I am enjoying the humor. Sharpen those pitchforks! Re-light those torches! Burn the witches of Moonhowlings!!!

  43. Censored bybvbl

    Yeah, it’s a hoot when some wingnut pontificates about women’s liberation. A few of these gasbags have been yammering on about the objectification of women and the abuse of women in pornography. Although there is some truth in that, these guys are usually the ones who believe a woman’s place is in the home, pregnant, and subservient to the little man. “Lib” is usually a slur hurled about in their description of any woman not following obediently. Hmmm…maybe they’d be the ideal customers for some S&M toys. Let’s keep a look out from the comfort of the outdoor tables at City Square Cafe! Lol!

  44. @censored–Think they will go sneaking in there to meet Mistress Yanks-a-lot? ” Please Mistress Green!!! I am just an anonymous mad dad who likes you lib types! I can’t tell one of them lib wimmins from the other. All them thar lib wimmins look alike. ”

    The poor woman accused of being Elena was probably some good church lady. Thank goodness she will never know.

    Censored you want to take your camera and I will take mine. We can photogragh the photographers. :mrgreen:

  45. Wolverine

    I think that Elena could take a positive look at this. If they jump all over you even when you are not there, that means you have had an influence on them. Elena and I undoubtedly disagree on a whole host of things; but I must say that there is an old showbiz adage that goes something like this: When they STOP talking about you is when you ought to begin worrying.

  46. Wolverine

    Same goes for you, Moon.

  47. Wolverine, if they are talking about Elena and me, they are leaving Cindy alone. It was unconscionable that a cheap shot was taken at Cindy. No one does more for the City than Cindy and no one asks for less in return. I don’t like decent people called out and mimicked.

    Shame shame shame on all of them. All these people speaking up for family and Christian values and then acting meaner than snakes. And a blogger being a big blowhard against “pornography” and then allowing it on the blog, directed at Elena.

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