You know how you see the words WASH ME on the back of a dusty truck…I just got reminded, not too subtly, to change the Open Thread from last week.  This the month of the witch…..

104 Thoughts to “Open Thread Friday October 1, 2010”

  1. Lafayette

    Waiting to cheer the Redskins on! I bet Big Dog and I can agree on that one. 🙂

  2. You certainly are the lucky one. @ punchak. 50 years! wow.

    My parents were very glad my brother was unloading the albatross. However, they had never told him how much they did not like her. Good for them. Meanwhile, I got sent into what we thought was going to be the lion’s den.

    An aside….my paternal grandparents did not live together in my lifetime. I don’t know if they were divorced or not. I asked my mother shortly before her death. She said she didn’t know. I asked how she could not know and said surely my father knew and told her. She told me he would not talk about it. She said she thought it embarrassed him. They were married many years also…55 years until his death. Wouldn’t you think that in all those years she would have found out?

  3. punchak

    Let’s hope the Redskins don’t do their usual fade-out at the end. Rah, rah, rah!

  4. Perhaps I should have said I am assuming my grandparents were not divorced legally but simply lived their own lives. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.

  5. Need to Know

    More Corey Stewart campaign finance shenanigans – last week, VPAP showed two $10,000 contributions (June 1, 2009 and June 1, 2010) from Malcolm W. Cook, the Treasurer and Board member of the Hylton Foundation. Today, only the June 1, 2010 contribution is show.

    What’s up with changing the campaign finance reports?

  6. CNN is running a series on bullying this week.

    A bumper crop of corn this year. It will impact food prices. I hope this is good news.

  7. Big Dog

    – Both Redskin victories this season have been decided on the last play
    of the game – not sure my nerves will last the season. Of course, in sports
    and politics, close victories sure beat close defeats.

    – Am pleased with the Atlanta Braves inching into the NL playoffs one
    more time for Bobby Cox. My love of baseball goes to being a kid and watching
    the old Atlanta Crackers at Ponce De Leon Park. The Braves came to Atlanta
    the year I graduated from HS and Hank Aaron will always be the home run king
    in my book. (Enjoyed Ken Burns’ “10th Inning” on PBS and was reminded again
    of what style, class and decency Cal Ripken brought to the game).

  8. Big Dog

    And for read diehard Skin fans – take a moment and visit Margie at
    Two Days Gifts at the corner of Center and Grant in Old Town Manassas.
    She is 100% Burgundy and Gold.

  9. Big Dog, I had a hard time getting in to the “10th Inning.” I am glad you enjoyed it. It sure isn’t the game it was in the first 60 years of the 20th century.

    Mantle and Marris defined it for me.

  10. Censored bybvbl

    And if you go to Two Days Gifts, go next door for a pastry at the Majestic Cafe.

  11. Starryflights

    A very thought-provoking essay from Rich Cohen today:

    On the right, hateful words are fired like bullets

    By Richard Cohen
    Tuesday, October 5, 2010

    The governor of Ohio, James Rhodes, demonized the war protesters. They were “worse than the Brownshirts and the communist element. . . . We will use whatever force necessary to drive them out of Kent.”

    That was the language of that time. And now it is the language of our time. It is the language of Glenn Beck, who fetishizes about liberals and calls Barack Obama a racist. It is the language of rage that fuels too much of the Tea Party and is the sum total of gubernatorial hopeful Carl Paladino’s campaign message in New York. It is all this talk about “taking back America” (from whom?) and this inchoate fury at immigrants and, of course, this raw anger at Muslims, stoked by politicians such as Newt Gingrich and Rick Lazio, the latter having lost the GOP primary to Paladino for, among other things, not being sufficiently angry. “I’m going to take them out,” Paladino vowed at a Tea Party rally in Ithaca, N.Y.

    1. Pictures of Kent State. I feel stronger about it now than I did then. It should have never happened. Thanks for posting this essay, Starry.

  12. First let me state that Kent State was a tragedy.

    Second, let me state that it is absolutely shameful that Cohen tries to link that tragedy to the current political climate. If you follow his logic, then the government would be shooting Tea Party members. I mean, it is Pelosi that called the TP nazis.

    “The governor of Ohio, James Rhodes, demonized the war protesters”

    The Tea Party is using rhetoric against the PEOPLE WITH THE GUNS. The Tea Partiers are the protesters.

    “It is the language of Glenn Beck” Really? Beck is calling for any protests to follow in the footsteps of GHANDI and MLK. Not too much violence there.

    “It is all this talk about “taking back America” (from whom?)” If he can’t tell, then he’s one of them. Its about taking back America from over-reaching politicians that no longer honor their oaths of office to uphold the Constitution. Its about taking back America from those that want to “fundamentally transform” America into a more socialist state.

    Cohen is a hack and should be ashamed of himself. This article is basically “demonizing” the Tea Party and those whom he disagrees with as the same as the “killers” and the politicians that were against the anti-war movement that was causing chaos back then.

    “this inchoate fury at immigrants”

    One: its not inchoate. Its quite organized and understandable. Nor is it incipient. Anger at the lack of law enforcement has been simmering for decades. Two: its not at immigrants. Its at illegal aliens, who, by definition, are not immigrants. Three: The fury is primarily at weaselly politicians, and secondarily at the illegal aliens.

    “of course, this raw anger at Muslims, stoked by politicians”

    Stoked by politicians? You mean the same politicians that told us that Islam is a religion of peace and have bent over backwards to AVOID offending Muslims. The anger is stoked by certain Muslim spokesmen, imams, and businessmen. The anger is stoked by the intolerance and violence portrayed by the Muslim world. The anger is stoked by the double standard put forth by the politicians, media, and useful idiots of the Islamist agenda.

    “Back in the Vietnam War era, the left also used ugly language and resorted to violence. But the right, as is its wont, stripped the antiwar movement of its citizenship. It turned dissent into treason” Actually, interviews with the Vietnamese gov’t credit the anti-war movement for actually winning the war for them. And the killings at Kent State were not because the Guard thought that the protesters were traitors. From what I’ve read, no order was actually given. The Guard members were scared to death also. I think someone fired reflexively and others, hearing the shot, also fired.
    It was the VETS that were stripped of citizenship. It was THEY that were abused. I mean, Obama’s friend Ayers was a FREAKING TERRORIST, but he’s part of high society now.

    1. From what I know of Kent State (and no, I wasn’t there) it was more about an inadequately trained national guard. I agree that they were scared and someone fired reflexively. An official fire command was never given. And I don’t believe shots were fired because the students were thought of as traitors.

      And yes, dissent was turned in to treason. I will agree with that. Complex times. And not all Vets were abused. Far from it. Were some? Sure. But by and large that did not happen. And yes, I was around for all that.

      Not sure I agree about Ayers. No one had ever heard of him. If he was, then lots of people were terrorists. And for the record, I was not part of the anti war movement. I had a marine corp vet boyfriend. Shrug.

  13. Starryflights

    Cargo, you claim that you tea partiers are protesting politicians not adhering to the Constitution. I don’t think you understand the term. In all the times I have read your posts in this board, I have never heard you nor any of your fellow travellers ever articulate – even once – which specific constitutional rights are being trampelled upon, or how.

    Freedom of religion is guaranteed under the Constituion, yet that right is under assault when you want government to tell Muslims that they cannot build mosques where they choose.

    You claim you want small, limited government, that respects individual rights, yet you also supports laws like Arizona’s that are inherently contradictory to such notions.

    You claim you want less spending. Okay, so tell me what you like to do without? Defense? Social Security?

    And where were you during the eight years when Republicans were increasing medicare benefits, starting two expensive wars and enacting tax cuts at the same time? Where were the protests about government spending?

    All the tea party can offer is a lot of hot air. Such words have consequences, like the former Governor of Ohio before the Kent State massacre. The comparisions are apt.

  14. Oh my. Target rich environment…

    Starry, the protesters in NYC did not ask NY to restrict the building of the mosque. In fact, another CHURCH has been denied a chance to rebuild. So…you’re wrong. The protesters are using the 1st Amendment to show their outrage at the proposed building and have actually stated that they wouldn’t care if it was built elsewhere, as the city offered….

    We want small limited government. And THAT’S the case you use? Hahahaha! It is the duty of the federal government to guard the states against invasion. THAT is in the Constitution. What Arizona is doing is ENFORCING federal law.

    Less spending. Yep. Let’s put it ALL on the table and justify the spending. 42% of the budget is borrowed. About 58% of the budget is “untouchable” entitlements. That means 100% of the budget that is financed by taxes is going to entitlements and 100% of the rest is BORROWED.

    Where was I? I was speaking out about it. I was writing blog posts since 2003 criticizing Bush’s lack of vetoes and his liberal spending. STARTING TWO EXPENSIVE WARS? Who started the war? ITS ONE WAR. ISLAMIST JIHADISTS STARTED IT. Its being fought in theaters all over the world, of which the two major ones are Iraq and Afghanistan.
    The protests about government spending took awhile to get going. Unlike the left, the conservatives aren’t the type to “protest” and there was a learning curve.

    Since you say the comparisons are apt, can I assume that you feel that you are on the same side as the “anti-war” movement? I’ll base my description of you on YOUR logic. People like you, then, are actively seeking the defeat of America’s interests and the death of our troops. People like you, then, based on your comparisons, would put you on the side of the “useful idiot.” If you don’t understand that term, look it up.

    The comparisons are apt.

  15. Here is some more “professional” critique of Cohen’s work.

    Althouse is a moderate left/centrist lawyer.

    Moynihan is probably libertarian, seeing that this is in Reason.

  16. Wolverine

    Moon, did you really mean the last paragraph in #18? Ayers was a leader of the most violent faction of the Weathermen, responsible for a number of bombings, including one at the Pentagon. He was most certainly considered to be a terrorist and admitted his role in all this in his own subsequent writings. He, in fact , bragged about how much bang the Weatherman got for only about 500 bucks in the Pentagon bombing. I am a staunch defender of the First Amendment, but, in my book, Ayers and his cohorts were not simply dissenters. They were domestic terrorists. Not very adept to be sure, but terrorists just the same.

    Also, I beg to differ a bit on the abuse of Vietnam vets. You may be correct with regard to actual physical abuse. But the much larger measure was verbal and psychological abuse, largely from the dissidents but also in the media to some extent. In previous wars, the guys often came home proudly wearing their uniforms and medals. In my war, many of them elected to come home in civies because they did not want to deal with the hassle. I’ve told this story before; but, as I lay on the stretcher in the receiving room at a naval hospital, surrounded by grieviously wounded Marines, we were all told not to wear our uniforms when we were able to go out on liberty because we might be spat upon, called names, and goaded into fights. If that isn’t “abuse”, I don’t know what is.

    1. @Wolverine

      Yes, I probably should have said the rank and file person never heard of him. He wasn’t a household name like some of those infamous ones were. I would call him a terrorist if he shot off anything but his big mouth.

      I never said people weren’t abused. I said “not all vets were abused. Far from it.”

      I am aware that service men and women were warned of dire conditions in the United States. Much of that was overblown. I know of very few people who actually ran in to idiots. Most people I knew supported those who served. Most people I knew also didn’t want to go themselves. I attended college in an area that can best be described as the epicenter of all that is military. Pick a branch….Girls’ schools tend to be guy magnets.

      The South has a long history of military tradition. Ugliness towards Vietnam Vets was out of the ordinary in the South.

  17. Nettie Stevens

    There is a great book out…Glory Denied. It is about the longest serving POW and his dealings in captivity as well as back at home. It’s not really a book like most. It is actual accounts and reads more like a play and not a novel. PS. I’m not a reader either and had a difficult time putting this down.

    1. Hi Nettie and welcome to Moonhowlings. I am glad you are here and I have enjoyed reading your comments on Andy’s blog. I hope you will become a regular. It is becoming THE place to be.

      I have not read Glory Denied but I would sure be interested. Is it on Kindle or ibooks? I like being able to change fonts.

      Has anyone else read it?

  18. Juturna

    Hey M-H
    Have you watched the movie 61 on HBO

    1. No I have not. @ Juturna. What is it about? I am heavily addicted to Pillars of the Earth from Netflix. It was a miniseries.

  19. Juturna

    Mantle/Maris!!!! 1961 was the year they chased Ruth’s record. I am watiing for Pillars of the Earth to be released.

    1. Oh way neat!! I had a big crush on both Maris and Mantle. More so Mantle.

      Pillars has been released. You can download it on Netflix. I got all 8 episodes.

  20. Elena

    Welcome Nettie 🙂

  21. Wolverine

    Moon, I agree that the difference in locale certainly was important. You were in Virginia. I was in New York City. It was the practically the first announcement made by the medical support staff as we were unloaded from the ambulances and carried into the receiving hall. I don’t think that, in that instance, it was idle gossip, as the primary place one went on weekend liberty from there was Manhattan. I think that it was about the time the steelworkers and construction guys came down from the Manhattan scaffoldings and had a street battle with anti-war protesters. From there I went to Norfolk and had few probelms in a “Navy town.” Then to Washington, D.C., and it started up again.

    1. Yes, I was in Virginia and most of the people I knew were in areas in the south. (funny thing about us southerners) I kicked around some in Norfolk then and I didn’t witness any of that there either but you might have gone different places than I did. Of course nasty anti war demonstrators probably didn’t hang out in those areas. It wasn’t safe.

      I make a distinction between anti war folks and nasty anti war demonstrators. I knew lots of people who opposed the Vietnam War but not lots of people who tore up things and spit on people. I liken them to making the distinction beween a conservative and James O’Keefe nowadays. Degrees.

      I watched what I said because my mother and father had told me if I got tangled up in any demonstrations they would pull my college funding and I was on my own. That sure cut off any activist thoughts I might have had. So I lived out the summer of love ….well…the story stops there.

  22. marinm

    I think a good and honest debate on the merits of both sides of the arguement (the firefighters taking no action and allowing the house to burn naturally OR putting out the fire even thought the homeowner removed himself from the risk pool by not paying his due that year).

    The arguement can be expanded on the current healthcare debate as well. Interesting case study, if you ask me.

  23. Rez

    Ms. Moon, if you liked Mantle and Maris, then get “Safe at Home” from netflix if they have it. it starred both of them, not actors.

    1. Thank you Rez. I will look for it as soon as I finish with Pillars of the Earth. I hope Safe at Home is on the instant play list.

      1. Rez, I cant find it on netflix. grrrrrrr

        @Emma, Chris, Juturna

        Pillars of the Earth if fabulous and available as a download on Netflix. I stumbled on it. It is in 8 parts. Who knows when it was on originally?

  24. Lafayette

    Is that reallly you? 😉

  25. Starryflights

    cargosquid :Less spending. Yep. Let’s put it ALL on the table and justify the spending. 42% of the budget is borrowed. About 58% of the budget is “untouchable” entitlements. That means 100% of the budget that is financed by taxes is going to entitlements and 100% of the rest is BORROWED.>

    So what would you cut?

  26. Starryflights

    Does Christine O’Donnell know something about China that you don’t?

    In a 2006 debate, Christine O’Donnell, the Republican Senate nominee from Delaware, claimed that she had classified information about China’s plans to take over America.

    The remarks sound like they’re straight out of “Red Dawn,” the upcoming movie about China’s takeover of the United States. Only O’Donnell wasn’t just saying her lines.

    According to an Associated Press report on Monday, the candidate, who lost in her 2006 primary bid for the Senate, said China had a “carefully thought out and strategic plan to take over America.” Responding to an opponent who said that working with China was in U.S. interests, O’Donnell countered: “That doesn’t work,” she said. “There’s much I want to say. I wish I wasn’t privy to some of the classified information that I am privy to.”

    Interesting. I wonder to what classified national security information O’Donnell has access, or is she just a paranoid loon?

    There sure are a lot of freaks and weirdos in that Tea Party crowd. Where do they find these people?

    1. Maybe she should turn her inside information over to the State Dept or at least the CIA. @ Starry

  27. Juturna

    Yes, Laf – it is I. I had to take a break from the blogging for a while. How’ve you been??!!

  28. Rez

    It was from waaaay back and was not exactly Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn, so it doesn’t surprise me that netflix didn’t have it.

    There are reviews of the movie on the above page.

    If interested, it appears it was also put on dvd recently.

  29. Welcome, Nettie. Thanks for helping to make a female friendly boutique welcome in Old Town Manassas.

  30. @Starryflights
    What would I cut…..Privatize Soc. Sec.. Make the SS tax either a private account completely or put the money in T-bill so that each account is private. Personally, I would phase it out completely, paying out benefits over 10 years, and then bye bye. Medicare needs to be reformed so that other health insurance can be used. Federal Welfare needs to go away.
    Dept’s of Education, HUD, Energy, Commerce, and Labor need to be either deleted, or at least reduced. Defense needs to be reformed. Congress needs to determine what our needs are in relation to our treaty demands and defense desires. DHS needs to go away. Its just one more layer of bureaucracy. No more Congressional pensions. No more federal Prescription plan. Medicaid needs reform. No more S-Chip program. Repeal the “stimulus” bills and Obamacare. Reform the regulatory agencies to be more streamlined. Regs must by justified by cost/benefit analysis and actual science.

    Since Obama has no intention of winning any wars, we need to pull out of Afghanistan. Same with Iraq. He lied about Afghanistan being the necessary war for him. His first goal was an exit strategy, not victory. Congress needs to ask what his intentions are.

    What would your plan be, Starry? Continue spending and confiscate the wealth of America?

    Right now, the “entitlement” programs make up about 57% of the budget:
    19.6%: Social Security
    16.1%: Unemployment/Welfare
    12.8%: Medicare
    8.2%: Medicaid/SCHIP

    42% of the budget is borrowed. That means that all of the discretionary spending is borrowed because entitlements eat up all of the tax revenue.

    We need to drastically cut spending. American citizens need to know that Uncle Sugar doesn’t have the money any more and that the politicians have been lying to them for years. Obama’s just been doubling down on the lies about our budget. He didn’t start it.

    We need to cut tax rates, simplify the tax code, and the regulatory code and make the business environment attractive to investors again. In fact, get rid of the income taxes all together and put in a national sales tax.

  31. Those are places that cuts cannot be made, Cargo. You can’t tell people they can’t get old, unemployed, poor, or sick. I don’t know what the answer is. What I do know is that this would be a real stupid time for some clown politician to start getting cute with mediCARE and SS cuts. Baby boomers are mean. The paybacks would be VERY rough.

  32. Formerly Anonymous

    I was asked for and gave my list of cuts back in April when I was still active here. Nobody ever commented on it, but for the record, this is what I proposed for cuts to get us about 2/3rds of the way to fiscal solvency. I won’t participate in the current debate but wanted to provide my historical answer for anyone who is interested. Of course, since it’s six months old, we’ve added another $500 billion to the debt to have to account for so there would need to be even more drastic cuts now.

    As I said, I won’t participate in the debate, but for anyone who doesn’t like my list, by all means come up with alternate plans to cut spending or raise taxes by a minimum of $1 trillion per year for the next 30 years. That isn’t enough to fix the problem, but it’s enough to show you are serious about trying to find a solution.

    From April:

    What would I do? I would like to avoid devaluing the dollar or defaulting on our debt if at all possible, so that leaves me with reducing the debt. To do this, I’d start with these unpopular measures:
    * Repeal Medicare Part D
    * Repeal HCR bill
    * Allow 2001 & 2003 tax cuts to expire entirely. No extensions for anyone. No AMT patches even!
    * Means test Social Security
    * Raise Retirement age to 70 immediately, gradually increasing to 75!
    * Repeal the latest Farm Bill
    * Tort reform that requires punitive damages to be paid to the Federal government not the plaintiffs. (Plaintiffs still get compensatory damages of course.)
    * Cut Federal highway funding substantially
    * Eliminate 2-3 carrier groups from the Navy. Shrink the Navy to approximately 200 ships. (There would need to be similar cuts in the other services but I don’t know enough about Army or AF to make meaningful suggestions yet.)
    * Cut F-35 fighter program
    * Deorbit International Space Station. Kill all manned space flight. For all intents and purposes dismantle NASA
    * Minimum 5% actual year on year cut in ALL discretionary spending
    * Require ALL appropriations bills, including emergency funding absent a formal declaration of war to be subjected to PAYGO
    * Suspend all foreign aid not obligated by treaty. Try to renegotiate any obligations required by treaty
    * Ban Congressional earmarks completely
    * And yes, withdraw troops from Iraq, Afghanistan as soon as possible. Withdraw troops from stable locations (like Germany) immediately.

    Implementing half of that list would probably get me lynched, but even if it were all implementing it still isn’t enough. That list might get us 2/3s of the way there. The rest would probably have to come through more severe cuts or tax hikes, but before I agree to any tax hikes, I’d want to see real, concrete cuts in spending. (In a general form, I feel that all adults should pay some amount in taxes, unless they are truly indigent. I favor consumption taxes over income taxes and would prefer something like a 30% national sales tax, not a VAT, on goods and services to replace the income tax.)

    I know all of the above sound drastic and cruel and heartless, but it really is going to be that bad. The difference is that now we still have a small amount of time to minimize the damage to people’s lives.

    1. Thanks Formerly. Probably no one commented because there is really nothing to say. Just lots of barfing noises. That is horrible.

  33. marinm

    FA, thought provoking. I’m a fan.

  34. marin, if all of the above were implemented, how many Americans would be living on the streets? We would be beneath the worst banana republic.

  35. marinm

    That could happen. But, it’s also true that it could happen if we don’t make systemic changes now. You could also argue that it’s in the world’s best interest that we do make those changes as a small amoung of pain felt in the US is better than a global collapse if the US goes under.

    So, the question really is; how comfortable are we mortgaging our kids future for our own comfort today?

  36. Juturna

    I doubt those employed as physical labor would survive toting tires to age 71 or 75. Psychologicaly, I can’t fathom working my adminstrative job to age 71 or 75 without hurting a fellow aging co-worker I’ve been stuck with since my 30’s. Marriages don’t last that long and we spend more time at the office…..
    Good thoughts though – although I do see transportation as a primary mission of government.

  37. We have to cut over 1 TRILLION dollars from the budget. We have to ABSOLUTELY GUT spending. I am 48 years old. I do not expect to see Soc. Sec. I consider my money spent into that account no different from income taxes and that’s how my government has treated it. If we continue the we are going, our economy is going to collapse. Our debt is unpayable. We are printing money to pay our debt. No one wants to lend us anymore money, nor could we afford it if we could. One solution, in the 90’s was to freeze spending and taxes for 10 years, except for emergencies. Our GDP growth would have paid off the deficits and debt. Now, with a sinking dollar, tanking economy, record debt, and historical deficits, with no end to it, if policies don’t change, we are screwed.

    You think that losing Soc. Sec. would hurt if it was phased out over 10, or even 15 years? Heck, phasing out tomorrow would hurt less than if our dollar collapses. So what if you get a SS check if the total amount covers a loaf of bread…..

    Obama’s idea of increasing taxes even makes sense if he was going to use it to pay down the existing deficit and debt. But he wants to use that money for INCREASED, RECORD SPENDING!

    Either he is incompetent or is doing it on purpose.

  38. SSG Robert Miller awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.

    Someone you should know. I have no other words.

  39. Rez

    Thank you, Cargo, for that link.

Comments are closed.