Ohio Voters Reject Controversial Anti-Union Law
From Huffingtonpost.com:
WASHINGTON — Ohioans overturned a divisive anti-union law on Tuesday, delivering a significant defeat to Republican Gov. John Kasich and a victory to labor unions.
Ohio voters rejected Issue 2, a ballot referendum on Senate Bill 5, a measure that restricts collective bargaining rights for more than 360,000 public employees, among other provisions. Opposition to the legislation inspired large protests from residents around the state this year.
Ohio governor John Kasich had to following to say:
“The people have spoken clearly. You don’t ignore the public. Look, I also have an obligation to lead. I’ve been leading since the day I took this office, and I’ll continue to do that. But part of leading is listening and hearing what people have to say to you.”
Apparently the average Ohio voter didn’t like the idea of dissolving labor unions. What started off as an attempt to balance responsibility for benefits a little better ended up being an attempt by Kasich and his political cronies to union bust. The good people of Ohio were having none of that yesterday.
Much of the dispute centers around labor union rights for public employees.
While much of the public attention has centered on the law’s ban on collective bargaining for public employees, the law also contained provisions to require public employees to contribute to their health care and pension benefits, along with pushing merit pay for teachers — proposals that polled well in the run-up to the election.
Merit pay for teachers has gone down in an abysmal blaze of glory for those jurisdictions who tried it over the last half century. Merit pay seems to only work with quantitatively measurable outcomes. Too much of teaching is art unless one wants to tie outcome totally to time in the building and test scores. Bottom line, it really doesn’t work. You can’t teach pigs to sing either.
Can public employees be asked to contribute more towards their own benefits? How can this work with a strong union? I sure don’t have the answer. There has to be balance. Unions can’t be allowed to absorb all the resources of a jurisdiction and states cannot crush unions. Publlic employees must be treated well and be reimbursed well or there will not be public employees. The fewer public employees available, the more the public will have to pay to have them.
This was a big, big victory for middle class Americans, unions, the OWS movement, Democrats and President Obama, who campaigned against the law. Romney and other Repugs supported the law.
Ohio is one of those bellweather states that will play a deciding role in next year’s Presidential election. No doubt about it, this bodes well for President Obama’s chances next year and does not bode well for the Repugs.
What do we do to protect jurisdictions from runaway pension funds and skyrocketing health care costs?
We don’t seem to have those severe problems in non-collective bargaining states like Virginia, despite what some of the politicians say.
Public employees are now picking up some of the cost of retirement now. I am sure they don’t like it much but it beats the alternative. I sure paid my own for many years before the state got creative.
I’m sure union members would be willing to make reasonable concessions if they were simply asked to do so. Busting up their unions is not going to resolve anything.
Really? Have you seen Detroit? Have you seen the reaction of the unions to any suggestions that they pay more? Wisconsin did that. That was part of the complaint against that governor.
Like Moon said….its a conundrum.
@Cargo, They were willing to negotiate part of a co-pay but not willing to give up collective bargaining rights.
I don’t know what the answer is.
I guess no one wants to pay more. The rich don’t want to pay more and the working class doesn’t want to pay more. You and I don’t want to pay more.
Unfortunately, the unions and the state gov’t overpromised, using faulty formulas in determining pension fund solvency. They expected too much return for too little input.
But…now, when the local gov’ts start going broke…those same union members will be out of a job.
Pay for the pension or pay an employee……hmmmm, seems like we have similar problems nationwide…..
I’m surprised y’all missed the juciest win from last night! The SB1070 guy in the Arizona Senate, Russel Pearce, lost his recall election. That ought to get some folks around here piddling their pants with joy!!
@SlowpokeRodriguez
Nope…Starry reported it in the open thread.
http://youtu.be/GjjZGyYcH9E
@Cargosquid
That’s who I was thinking of with the “piddling in the pants” thought. You never know which thread to check.
Those union members include cops and firefighters. The people of Ohio have decided that these individuals are worth paying for. Most of us don’t appreciate the hard work and sacrifice they make to keep us and our families safe and secure, until you’re in need of one. Next time your house in on fire or a family member is invovled in a serious traffic accident an in need of immediate medical attention, think about that.
I didn’t. I hope our newly elected state senators didn’t miss it.
@SlowpokeRodriguez
I didn’t miss it. I just can’t do new posts now. I will explain later. Russell Pierce got recalled. I don’t live in AZ so I really don’t give a rat’s ass.
Slowpoke, no one here piddles their pants with joy except my female dachhound and she doesn’t wear pants. That is just flat out disrespectful. It seems to me that since you are the second Republican male I have had to admonish over grossness that it is you all who seem a little overly excited. Put a lid on it and a sock in it.
@Starryflights
Stawrry, don’t you find it amazing that everywhere in the United States all the pension funds used the wrong formula? Are there that many stupid people? I would suggest that all those who want to union bust came up with that same excuse.
It is fairly easy to make it look that way on paper after the crash of 2008. Pension funds lost billions. They all had to play catch up from a much reduced point. Ah…lets blame the unions. Yea, that’s the ticket.
Funny how it never really came up most places until after the crash. All we heard in VA before that was how solvent the VRS was. Model pension fund. blah blah blah. Then the ATM stuff started….
@Moon-howler
Actually, no, I don’t find it amazing that everywhere that unions demanded high pensions, that states are going broke. Politicians wanted the union machine. The union machine wanted money. The Pols promised high returns without high input and got what they wanted, believing that they would be immune to any problems. Which, actually, is usually the case with incumbents.
The problems with the pensions have been discussed for at least 10 years in the blogosphere. This is not a new problem.
@Moon-howler
IN the case of the VRS, I agree with you. That wasn’t a problem until the gov’t borrowed from it. They had better pay that back. Or I’ll be right there with you criticizing them.
You and I are agreeing an awful lot today, Cargo. Should one or both of us be worried?
What do you think about a national right to work law?
I mean, doesn’t being forced to join a union in order to get a job and having your dues extracted from your paycheck, strike you as wrong? Doesn’t that seem unconstitutional to you?
I probably would not mind as long as people who have obtained benefits don’t lose them and as long as people still had the right to join unions.
I am comfortable with the way things are in Virginia. This may unleash the hounds of hell on me for saying that but I don’t much care.
Does that answer surprise you, Cargo?
lets take the word Union out of this discussion – the State’s Public Pension Funds – of which, many members, including the elected officials themselves are beneficiaries. The Unions are being blamed for all of it, but in many cases the States run the Funds.
I still do not understand why Wisconsin chose to exclude the Police and Fire Fighters from the collective bargaining agreement ban? If collective bargaining is bad for teachers and janitors – why not for the Police and Fire Fighters?
@Pat.Herve
Pure politics. See what happened in Ohio? The unions pasted pictures of cops and firemen everywhere and scared the people that they would be ….something. Because the bill wasn’t going to put them out of work……
@Moon-howler
No. You’ve said as much earlier.
What nonsense. This law did not “dissolve labor unions.” It simply denied them the special privileges of monopoly representation and a preferred place at the table in the debate over the allocation of scarce public resources. That’s not “anti-union.” It’s anti-special privileges.
@Pat.Herve
I read that they had supported the governor.
Many union members feel if they lose their collective bargaining rights they have been union busted. Sorry James, that’s how they feel.
You have your opinion, they have theirs.
James, the law is repealed. The people have spoken. Case closed.
@IVAN
Case not closed. Kasich has a long time to return to it. I bet that it comes back.
@Cargo, he pretty much said the people of Ohio has spoken. Is he going to go against the people?
He seemed pretty contrite when I saw him interviewed.
If he’s smart, he will find out what was most objectionable, get rid of it or re-word it, and try again. Liberals win by never, ever, ever giving up on what they want. They present their bills over and over, in different forms, for the same ends.
The conservatives should do the same.