Home > General > Open Thread……………………………………………….Sunday, February 19

Open Thread……………………………………………….Sunday, February 19

February 18th, 2012

The Life of flowers (Жизнь цветов) from VOROBYOFF PRODUCTION on Vimeo.

Something a little new and different for the open thread, in anticipation of spring. Don’t be put off by a little snow in the forecast. We are very spoiled for good weather this winter.

What is the down side of having no really cold weather to speak of?

Categories: General Tags:
  1. Starryflights
    February 19th, 2012 at 07:52 | #1

    Posted at 08:59 PM ET, 02/18/2012
    Romney’s Arizona co-chair resigns in wake of explosive allegations
    By Felicia Sonmez
    Editor’s note: This post has been updated.

    Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu is stepping down as co-chairman of former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney’s (R) Arizona campaign in the wake of allegations that he threatened to deport a former lover who declined to stay silent about their years-long relationship.

    “Sheriff Babeu has stepped down from his volunteer position with the campaign so he can focus on the allegations against him,” Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul said in a statement. “We support his decision.”

    Babeu has denied any wrongdoing. And, on Saturday, he confirmed that he is gay, the Associated Press reported.

    “I’m here to say that all the allegations. . .were untrue — except for the instance that refers to me as gay,” Babeu said in a news conference, according to the Associated Press. “That’s the truth — I am gay.”

    News of Babeu’s move was first reported by the Arizona Republic.

    Babeu, a national GOP rising star who is running against Rep. Paul Gosar (R) in Arizona’s newly created 4th District, is known for his hard-line position on illegal immigration. He endorsed Romney in October, saying in a statement that the presidential candidate “has shown that he is the most committed to securing the border.” Babeu has stumped for Romney in recent months.

    The Phoenix New Times reported earlier this week that a man who claims to be Babeu’s former boyfriend says Babeu threatened him with deportation when he would not agree to stay silent about their relationship. Babeu has denied the allegations

    {Ed Note–Starry’s words begin after this message. I see nothing homophobic at all in his words.]
    Gosh, turns out Romney’s co-chair in Arizona, a sherrif with a tough stand on illegal immigrants, is a homosexual. Who knew?

    I wonder how come there are so many closet homosexuals in the Republican party?

  2. Starryflights
  3. Emma
    February 19th, 2012 at 08:17 | #3

    @Starryflights “I wonder how come there are so many closet homosexuals in the Republican party?”

    I dunno, maybe the Democrats just hide it better? Or better yet, what’s your (homophobic) point?

  4. February 19th, 2012 at 10:05 | #4

    Why is Starry being accused of being homophobic? I think he asks a legitimate question. Key word: closeted

    You don’t see the degree of closeted in the Democratic party.

  5. February 19th, 2012 at 11:57 | #5

    2.7 aftershock around 2 am this morning. I am pretty sure I felt it although if no one told me I would have chalked it up to being light headed.

    Just a little …hard to describe…It was sort of like being dizzy for a second. I was up watching TV.

  6. Emma
    February 19th, 2012 at 12:03 | #6

    Starry’s comment is exactly why so many stay in the closet, rather than endure her brand of sneering ridicule. But of course, Starry can never be wrong, as we well know.

  7. February 19th, 2012 at 13:37 | #7

    I believe Starry is a he.

    Can Emma be wrong?

    I didn’t take it as ridicule of Babeu being gay. If there was any ridicule involved, IF–then it was because the Republican Party is not always inviting to gays. The party that targets same sex marriage and uses it as a rallying cry seems unlikely to really feel much differently about gays in general.

    One simply doesn’t see the same degree of unacceptance within the Democratic party or with Independents.

    As for the poke at Elena and me about Starry being wrong, sometimes I agree, sometimes I disagree. There are examples of both here. Opinion is neither right or wrong, it is an opinion.

  8. Cindy B
    February 19th, 2012 at 13:44 | #8

    Lord, I was looking at the pretty flowers. Thanks, Moon. Everybody remember to fertilize in the fall, NOT spring. The Virginia Cooperative Extension offers a BEST lawns (Building Environmentally Sustainable Turf) deal. For $25 a Master Gardener volunteer will collect a soil sample to send off to VA Tech, measure your lawn, give you a BEST Lawn care handbook and you will get a customized lime & fertilizer plan for your lawn. for more info, 703-792-4037 or tbolles@pwcgov.org. BEST $25 you ever spent. Buying all that other stuff is a waste of your money and the runoff pollutes the streams running into the Chesapeake Bay.

  9. Cindy B
    February 19th, 2012 at 13:55 | #9

    Also, Basics of Gardening at the Manassas Park Community Center on Sat. March 10 from 8:30 am to 3:30 pm. $40, deadline to register is Feb. 25. VCE 703-792-7747. Lunch provided and you get your choice of 3 out of 7 classes: Tips for a Healthy Lawn, Groundcovers & Turf Alternatives, Small Space Gardening, Planning a New Garden Bed, Choosing Native Plants, Problem Free Trees & Shrubs, Getting Rid of What’s Buggin’ You.

    Now back to the other things that bug you.

  10. February 19th, 2012 at 14:44 | #10

    I welcome the distraction, Cindy. Thanks. Weren’t those flowers gorgeous? A friend of my mother’s sent me that. This lady was so good to my mother when she was living and stayed a friend to me. How rich is that?

  11. Second Alamo
    February 19th, 2012 at 14:52 | #11

    Oh come on! If I had posted what Starry posted there would be reply after reply accusing me of being homophobic. Sometimes this blog really gets twisted (no reference to ……. well, never mind).

  12. February 19th, 2012 at 15:50 | #12

    I don’t think we have addressed homophobia on this blog. I don’t really think anyone is homophobic on this blog.

    Actually you men are the ones who fight with Starry. I don’t usually respond.

    If you had commented about Republicans being gay…I would have thought someone was using your identity. @SA

    Some R’s are inclusive to gays. Some are not. Surely those who come pouring out to vote against same sex marriage aren’t too hospitable. Love the sinner hate the sin doesn’t send a warm fuzzy message to me.

    I have a very good gay friends who is as Republican as Orrin Hatch (one of his heroes). I continually ask him why he contributes to his own oppression. I just don’t think you see the same vim and vigor against gays amongst D’s and I’s as you do R’s.

  13. Second Alamo
    February 19th, 2012 at 16:13 | #13

    The one thing that I fail to understand is that in this liberal land of freedom you aren’t free to dislike some groups based on their lifestyle. Why is it that I, or anyone else, is forced by society to look the other way when it comes to certain lifestyles? Society itself picks and chooses which lifestyles you must not offend. Drug addicts? No problem, you aren’t pressured to support them, but others you dare not offend by lack of support or agreement with their actions. So tell me once again about freedom of speech. How about freedom of association, or disassociation?

    • February 19th, 2012 at 16:24 | #14

      @SA, no one says you have to like anyone. You just can’t go in public bashing them without social pressure. I think it is more a manners thing. Some workplaces have their own rules.

      Furthermore, it usually isn’t the behavior that gets attacked, its the essense of their being.

      The Queer, The Mexican, The cab driver, The Ethiopians, The Catholics, The Mormons, The Geezers, The Gimps, There tends to be a grand sweep and much stereotyping of behaviors that generalize to the entire sub group of people. Just my opinion……

      Do you have examples that disprove what I said?

  14. marinm
    February 19th, 2012 at 22:17 | #15

    Interesting article on NYT that reminds me of the most recent birth control debates on the blog.


    “One group still largely resists the trend: college graduates, who overwhelmingly marry before having children. That is turning family structure into a new class divide, with the economic and social rewards of marriage increasingly reserved for people with the most education. ”

    “The forces rearranging the family are as diverse as globalization and the pill. Liberal analysts argue that shrinking paychecks have thinned the ranks of marriageable men, while conservatives often say that the sexual revolution reduced the incentive to wed and that safety net programs discourage marriage. ”

    Having a few single female friends it’s rather depressing listening to them talk about ‘available men’. Usually the conversation centers around a shrinking list of must-have’s; clean arrest record (or at least a non-felony record), a car, a job, and or a banking account.

    It’s a pretty sad list if you ask me. And, even sadder is that these women are flexible on those items — “well, he’s a felon but it was only possession” or “he’s only working PT right now but he’s first in line to get a FT position”.

    Now, from a male’s perspective this isn’t too bad of a situation. Women not really caring about marriage (generalizing here), casual and easy to come by sex, little if any emotional involvement.. I think it’d be interesting times if I were single! :)

    Of course the legal system doesn’t help. Single mothers get government benefits and men that do get married risk financial damage in terms of spousal or child support payments.

    I am loathe to agree with social conservatives but the numbers do look to support their theory……

    I still feel strongly that women should have access to birth control but that govt shouldn’t force any company or organization to pay for it.

    • February 20th, 2012 at 05:12 | #16

      @marin, if we consider contraception part of health care and health care is provided, I believe there certainly should be a stardard, like in all other insurances. Yes, I do think companies providing health care should provide it.

      That was an excellent article in some respects. Obviously there is concern that children are born outside of marriage. I don’t think that piece of paper is the importance. What is important is that kids grow up with their parents. Parents bring more economic security and the social structure involves the ‘2 parent system.’ I am certainly not saying it is a must but I am all in favor of the 2 parent system being the standard.

      Not all single parents are on the dole. I personally know several who have never involved the government as part of their support system. However, there are plenty that do and they are costing the country a fortune. Back to unintended pregnancy. Ending unintended pregnancy would make a huge difference in social spending in this country, starting with putting women more in control of their own economic situations.

      Pardon me, but I must say something unforgivable. Why is it that people will drive for miles to mate their dogs with the right ‘champion’ and yet not apply the same standards to themselves? I don’t get that. I can’t understand why any woman wants a boyfriend she has to support. That isn’t how it suppose to work. Back in the day, bums weren’t the desirable catch. Are people really that lonely? Do women really have to have a man that badly?

      Is this a self esteem thing? Whatever happen to the goddess imagine? Geez. Goddesses don’t buy cigs and beer for bums.

  15. Starryflights
    February 21st, 2012 at 00:51 | #17

    Birth control as election issue? Why?


    Very good article – a convergence of events from both sides of the political aisle has pushed birth control front and center in our national conversation. It should be discussed.

  16. February 21st, 2012 at 11:30 | #18

    Patriot High School is being evaculated. Strong, unidentifed odor. The buses are ready to roll out.

  17. Lafayette
    February 21st, 2012 at 14:15 | #19

    Hope everyone has combed over the agenda. Looks like we have a rezoning tonight that’s been denied by both Planning Commission and staff.

  18. Need to Know
    February 21st, 2012 at 15:05 | #20

    Laf: are we taking bets as to whether Nohe will push through a residential development over the objections of the both the Planning Commission and staff (still aghast that they opposed this)?

  19. Lafayette
    February 21st, 2012 at 15:30 | #21

    @Need to Know
    I don’t know who will lead the charge. I’m like you, I can’t believe that staff has opposed this. However, watch five of them vote in favor.(I think I have them pegged, but not certain) 👿 If they want something they don’t give a rat’s behind what the PC and/or staff have said, nor the citizens. It is my sincere hope that the Gainesville supervisor does not vote in favor of this rezoning. Time will tell. Should be an interesting evening session.

  20. IVAN
    February 21st, 2012 at 15:30 | #23

    Seems that this property is owned by none other than our illustious State Delegate Jackson Miller. Purchases for $460,000 and assessed for $160,000. Zoned agricultural and applying for a change to residential. Boy, this just doesn’t pass the smell test.

    • February 21st, 2012 at 16:37 | #24

      He can sell the property to me. I would buy it. I would love to be neighbors with The Kelly building and Samskys Store.

      Of course it will go through. The rubber stamp crowd will be out in force.

  21. RV
    February 21st, 2012 at 15:49 | #25

    Correction…assessed for $118,500.

  22. Need to Know
    February 21st, 2012 at 16:31 | #26


    This meeting will be interesting. This property is zoned for employment uses and all 8 claim to support job creation. They have to go against that promise, as well as the Planning Commission and staff to approve it. Moreover, if Nohe votes against it it makes it more difficult for the others to support something in Coles he opposes. But that didn’t stop them supporting the Oaks over Mike Mays’ objection. I agree that we’re likely to see 5-3 but calling how each will vote is diffucult. I’m sure the 6 pro-developer supervisors (ex May and Principi) already have that worked out.

  23. Steve Thomas
    February 21st, 2012 at 16:46 | #27

    And some wonder why conservatives have declared all-out war on Planned Parenthood?: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2656376/posts

    Someone please explain to me how this conference “enhances womens access to quality reproductive healthcare”….

    • February 21st, 2012 at 16:55 | #28

      I will take a look in a minute. @ Steve.

    • February 21st, 2012 at 17:19 | #29

      Ok, ready to talk now. Obviously that Planned Parenthood director needs to be replaced. One bad experience doesn’t apply to all. In th efirst place, educators have no business discussing that stuff with students. Do I think there is ever a place for a “how to” at Planned Parenthood? yes. This wasn’t one of those times.

      My objection is that public school money was wasted on this kind of program. This type of instruction is just not part of public education.

      Now, if I had a gay son or daughter, I might be very grateful for a program that taught them about safe sex. Hell, I don’t know. I am not going to be judgemental about that end of it if it is PP professionals and ‘patients.’ Every ounce of me screams eeeewwwwwwwwwww but…that doesn’t make it wrong. Perhaps those types of classes could come from private donations.

      Discussion of the puppets has given me nightmares. ewwwwwwwwwwww

      I don’t think it is a liberal or conservative issue. I think it is an issue that most of us have little contact with. I do know that there are some very unsafe sexual practices out there in bizarro land and especially if I had a kid with an alternative sexual preference (just guessing that is the correct way of saying it) I would prefer that there is a safe place where he or she can go to learn how to not do something that is going to injure or kill them. Meanwhile, do I have to think about it? Thanks for the nightmares, Steve.

    • February 21st, 2012 at 17:20 | #30

      Oh, and to answer your question about enhancing women’s access….PP does that and it has other functions.

  24. Lafayette
    February 21st, 2012 at 16:59 | #31

    It’s quite the read, Moon.

    @Steve Thomas
    SMH!! I can offer no explanation. I’m just blown away with what I’ve read. :roll:

  25. Steve Thomas
    February 21st, 2012 at 17:09 | #32

    Me too.

  26. February 21st, 2012 at 17:36 | #33

    A change of pace–some of our wonderful Prince William County Board of Supervisors have decided they want to use the “discretionary funds” to stuff themselves. Supervisors John Jenkins, Maureen Caddigan and Marty Nohe have decided to give $1000 each from their “discretionary funds” to Prince William Boys and Girls Club of Greater Washington to fund its May 18 “steak-n-steak” dinner, an organization fund raiser. My question to you taxppayers and the BOCS is, “When is enough enough?” Did they learn nothing from the Wally Covington fiasco? How many ways will we allow the BOCS to pick our pocket?

    Remember–those are your tax dollars–they are not the personal funds of the supervisors. Write your supervisor and let them know that “Enough is Enough!”

    • February 21st, 2012 at 18:02 | #34

      I would rather the stake in steak ust be funded through the budget process.

      I think they need to come up with a better plan or at least have the decency to say ” on behalf of the taxpayers of PWC.”

  27. Censored bybvbl
    February 21st, 2012 at 18:13 | #35

    Bwahahahaha! Free Republic? Nothing like a biased source. Read the comment section for further enlightenment or dumbassery.

    If teachers are to understand what’s going on with many of their students, they need to be knowledgable. Students are gay, bi, and tranny as well as straight and almost all of them are subjected to (or seek out) modern culture with its emphasis on sex. Nancy Reagan’s “just say NO” only goes so far. Just because some subject is discussed at a conference meant to inform teachers doesn’t mean that every teacher there is going to race back to the classroom and go into minute detail about all of it. But if a student asks a question, a teacher will be better informed about the subject.

    Not everyone will say “no”. Not everyone will use the missionary position in the dark.

    Looking at the comments, I’d say Republicans(or Conservatives) think sex is dirty. But isn’t that what this season’s presidential race is all about. Bad Planned Parenthood! Bad birth control!!!! Bad abortions!!!!! Bad feeling good about one’s sexuality or pleasure!!!!! Bad if not straight!!!!! Bad if informed!!!! Bad!!!! Bad!!! Bad!!!

    • February 21st, 2012 at 20:08 | #36

      I was giving the source the benefit of the doubt. I have no problem with teachers or anyone else going to programs about how to deal with GLT (whatever letters) students and kids. I would say it is much needed. I think the how to classes should probably be for another day. Why? This very reason. Teachers can go to those on their own time.

      What one branch of PP decides to do should not be reflective of the entire organization. Sometimes organizatons make mistakes. Hard to tell if this was one of those times or if someone choxe to create a gotcha moment.

      I think I would be praying that no one asked me a question.

  28. Lafayette
    February 21st, 2012 at 20:03 | #37

    How nice our Planning Commissioner at large is representing Jackson. This is infuriating!!! What’s wrong with these people?

  29. Cato the Elder
    February 21st, 2012 at 21:55 | #38

    Moon-howler :
    Patriot High School is being evaculated. Strong, unidentifed odor. The buses are ready to roll out.

    Wasn’t me!

  30. February 22nd, 2012 at 09:34 | #39

    Current Planning Commissioner sells property at 4 times value to current Delegate
    Current Delegate files CPA and rezoning
    Current Delegate contributes to several BOCS election campaigns
    Current Planning Commissioner recuses himself from PC vote
    Planning Commission and Planning Office recommend denial
    Current Planning Commissioner acts as Delegate’s agent before the BOCS
    BOCS unanimously approves both applications

    Business as usual in PWC.

  31. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 09:37 | #40



    Can you understand why conservatives view PP as a destructive force within the community? Conservatives see a clear agenda here: The hyper-sexualization of children, at a younger and younger ages. Standardization of “acceptable sexual behavior, as defined by some extra-familial organization, and promulgated by the state, via public schools. If PP wants to remain as an avenue for women’s reproductive health, perhaps they ought to limit their activities to such. Leave the sponsoring of things like this to GALA, NAMBLA, etc.

    • February 22nd, 2012 at 13:43 | #41

      NAMBLA should be outlawed. Discussion for another day.

      I don’t see PP as a destructive force at all. I think social conservatives have demonized it. I have never known that organization to try to sype up sexuality with children. TV, movies, music, wall street advertising, yes. PP, no.

      I think the trouble comes from the fact that social conservatives really don’t understand that there are kids out there who are proactivally living as adults at age 10. Their children are not like that (and good on them) I think the soc cons see PP as having caused the problem rather than PP responding to the problem.

      if a planned parenthood were to come to our area, what services would we expect them to provide and not provide?

  32. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 10:06 | #42

    @Censored bybvbl

    Censored, swing and a miss. I read the actual writings of the Keynote speaker Dr. Paul Joannides, the links were provided in the article. The Free Republic piece is an accurate report of what he said, and the “instruction” that was offferred.

    Look, I don’t expect to change your mind, anymore than you could ever change mine. I see the agenda as deviant and destructive to our youth. You do not. Fine. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. The fact is, PP sponsored this conference. It was attended by teachers, whose expenses were paid by taxpayers. The objectionable topics were covered, and the remarks made by the Keynote speaker. These are the facts. You are a liberal. I get it. My point is, I am trying to help others understand why conservatives want to cut off public funding for PP. Attack conservatives all you want, but it won’t change the fact that Dr. Joannides”Keynote: The Conversations We Are NOT Having with Our Teens and Pre-Teens” proves my point. I am not even going to ask you to make a case for how proper butt-plug selection in hetro or homosexual intercourse furthers female reproductive health, because you can’t. Just understand this: Conservatives see this sort of thing as a threat to their children. This is why conservatives will not stop until PP and organizations pushing this agenda are defunded, discredited, and ultimately destroyed.

  33. Censored bybvbl
    February 22nd, 2012 at 10:37 | #43

    @Steve Thomas

    Yours is the voice of a straight male trying to limit human sexuality to whatever you approve and no more. Is your solution to sex ed.in the schools limited to straights only? If so, you’re ignoring reality. Yours is an emotional response to a subject that most Americans of a certain age are reluctant to discuss – even with their kiddos.

    Planned Parenthood offered a conference where teachers were given a wide selection of info on sex. They don’t have to discuss all of it with their classes but may now have material to which they could refer a student who had questions. Hopefully, that student could have discussed these questions with his or her parents but that’s not always the case. Maybe the school guidance counselor will be the person to advise or answer the student’s questions.

    If you’ve ever shared a couple drinks with emergency room personnel, you’ll hear about a variety of objects that people “accidentally” sat on. So, yes, there is room for discussion of sexual practices of which you do not partake.

    We know you right-wingers dislike Planned Parenthood. But the assault on women’s reproductive choices has become nutty. Now even the Girl Scouts are a target for the wingnuts. Why not the Boy Scouts and some of the pedophiles who have infiltrated their ranks? It’s always been easier to pick on the girls. Pffftt.

  34. Lafayette
    February 22nd, 2012 at 10:55 | #44

    Nice summation as always. Let’s not forget our chair was absent again.
    SOP in PWC!! Pathetic.

  35. Need to Know
    February 22nd, 2012 at 11:18 | #45

    “He (Warren Buffett) should just write a check and shut up,” Christie said. “I’m tired of hearing about it. If he wants to give the government more money, he’s got the ability to write a check — go ahead and write it.”

    Amen, Governor Christie


  36. Need to Know
    February 22nd, 2012 at 11:24 | #46


    Mom, I never thought I’d see a member of the Planning Commission (Corey’s appointee Haynes) show up at a Board meeting to represent an applicant, even if he did recuse himself at the PC meeting on this issue.

    As I understand a previous scheme, a measure was proposed in the State Legislature that would have barred Kim Hosen from serving on the PC because she works for a conservation organization and that would be a conflict of interest. But it’s OK for someone who works in the real estate business to serve on the PC and even represent his clients before Board of Supervisors. Correct?

    All things are possible in Prince William County.

  37. Need to Know
    February 22nd, 2012 at 11:37 | #47


    My guess is that that was a strategic absence last night to avoid being on record on this one. The Board didn’t consider much else last night and the Lt. Gov. race was calling.

  38. February 22nd, 2012 at 11:41 | #48

    His representation of Jackson’s interests in the rezoning now raise an interesting question regarding future conflicts of interest. As Jackson’s representative one would presume that he has some financial interest not only in the rezoning but also in the development of the residential properties allowed by that rezoning. Given that the value of residential property, particularly new construction, is largely governed by supply and demand in the region, does it not stand to reason that he would have a financial interest in precluding any further residential construction in the vicinity of Jackson’s property if not the entirety of the county. Similarly, would he not have an interest in CIP or infrastructure improvements that would impact that site and might that influence his votes on the PC regarding such improvements throughout the county.

    Anyway you look at it, after last night, he must resign or have every vote questioned by applicants and/or residents, and conceivably leading to expense litigation for the county. Anything short of an immediate resignation would lend to the impression that he has a hubris greater than that of any sitting BOCS member, quite a feat in and of itself.

  39. Need to Know
    February 22nd, 2012 at 12:07 | #49


    In his presentation, their attorney stated that Wolf’s Run needs to be seen in a broader context, including transportation along Rt. 234. He called also for review of the entire area to be considered for change from commercial to residential uses. That means that the value and best use of the Wolf’s Run property is inextricably linked to the wider area that encompasses it. That’s according to their own attorney last night. That means that as Jackson’s agent or representative, Austin Haynes now has a conflict of interest throughout much or all of the Coles District and mid-County. He should resign from the Planning Commission today.

  40. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 12:15 | #50

    @Censored bybvbl

    “Is your solution to sex ed.in the schools limited to straights only?”

    My solution is sex.ed has no place in schools, straight, homo, bi, trans, tri, beastial, etc., whatsoever, outside of biology class. Let the schools handle literacy, mathmatics, science, etc. This is their job. Let their families educate them regarding sex, morals etc. Your solution? Johnny can’t read, and Jane can’t add, but they know how to have great sex and all the fun positions and toys for maximum pleasure, whethere Johnny is with Jane, Johnny is with Jimmy, Jane with Susie, or heck, just one big orgy…it’s all good. Their self-esteem is what’s important, and their self-gratification. None of them will have the skills to be doctors, lawyers, or astronauts, but they’ve got a great future in porn, once they get out of middle-school. In the meantime, ridicule conservatives and people of faith, whenever they raise objections. Yep, that’s a winner for the future of our society…just ask the Romans…

  41. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 13:12 | #51

    @Censored bybvbl
    “Now even the Girl Scouts are a target for the wingnuts.”
    For very good reason: http://www.honestgirlscouts.com/index.html

    “Why not the Boy Scouts and some of the pedophiles who have infiltrated their ranks? It’s always been easier to pick on the girls. Pffftt.”

    Your point, while irrelevant to the discussion, is moot: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-scouts-ordered-release-secret-sex-abuse-files-article-1.1025610

  42. Censored bybvbl
    February 22nd, 2012 at 13:21 | #52

    @Steve Thomas

    If your solution of limiting sex ed. to the parents worked, why worry? However, parents aren’t doing their jobs in many instances whether teaching their children about sex or algebra. If we have no future docs or lawyers , I’d suggest you look at parenting styles rather than the schools.

    Back in the olden days, sex ed. was taught in health class not biology. The basics of reproduction may have been taught in biology, but sex ed. was usually reserved for freshman health class or PE. Girls also had instructions about their periods in fourth grade – which would be a little late now days.

    You social conservatives seem all bent out of shape about peoples’ sexual lives. You spend too much time imagining every little thing that you feel you must control. As a history major, you should realize that nuclear families and even monogamy are fairly recent trends. The human race has survived for a long time so I don’t think in the terms of Armageddon that so many social conservatives embrace. And I’m well aware that no country or empire lasts forever and neither will ours. However, there’s as much danger from fascism as debauchery.

  43. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 14:33 | #53

    @Censored bybvbl
    “Back in the olden days, sex ed. was taught in health class not biology. The basics of reproduction may have been taught in biology, but sex ed. was usually reserved for freshman health class or PE. Girls also had instructions about their periods in fourth grade – which would be a little late now days.”

    I remember. I attended school when sex ed. was taught in health class. I took it as a 9th grader, the same year I took biology. I must have been absent the day they taught the butt-plug class. I also remember a time when the schools weren’t in the business of sexualizing elementary school children. Nuclear families and Monogamy are “fairly recent trends”? Last I checked, Western Culture has practiced Monogamy going back to well before a certain couple, were told “no room at the inn”, and it is certainly the historical precedent in the USA. The Greeks and Romans also practiced monogamy. But what does this have to do with the price of KY at KK’s? Nothing. Look, I don’t care who or what you liberals want to sleep with, as long as the other party is A: not a minor child, or B: human. What I object to is my tax dollars funding what amounts to hedonism being taught in our schools.

  44. Censored bybvbl
    February 22nd, 2012 at 15:00 | #54

    @Steve Thomas

    How about some examples of how schools are “sexualizing” elementary school children. I must be totally out of the loop, but I thought that popular culture and mom and pop buying children these sexy outfits were responsible.

    Don’t stop at just Western culture when looking at human marriage arrangements (or lack thereof). I thought I remembered you being from New England so I’m sure you remember the witch trials. Cultures evolve or as conservatives fear – fear being the operative word when describing too many conservatives – devolve. Parents aren’t doing such a hot job if you think society is so screwed up.

    How about some examples of hedonism being taught in Virginia’s and Prince William County’s and the Cities’ schools. The charge is preposterous. If you’re referring to NJ, then you should leave that fight to its residents.

  45. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 15:29 | #55


    I do believe I was pointing to the fact that PP, at least in the example cited, is operating far outside its claim of providing reproductive health services to females of a childbearing age. A quick perusal of the threads above will show how it was you who decided to broaden the argument. I suspected this was an attempt to shift the focus away from PP, and you ran through all of the typical Alinskyite tactics. First, you attempt to discredit the news source. When that was refuted, you attack conservatives, men, Republicans, and people of faith. When that doesn’t work, you try to make the conversation about me. Sorry, won’t work. Conservatives and people of faith have had enough, and are pushing back. Nationally. At the state level. The problem is, when the left pushes hard, the right pushes back just as hard, and the left no longer has a monopoly on the desemination of information. Stories like the one cited in Free Republic, or Drudge, Daily Caller, etc. will get out. I hear sooooooo many folks here talking about Republicans needing to reign in conservatives. Well that door swings both ways. How about lefties policing themselves for a change? How about telling PP: “Look, we want women to have access to contraception and if needed, abortion services. Stick to that and stop making it harder to defend you”…

  46. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 15:46 | #56

    And 2 bills currently before congress are especially disconserting: HR 998, and S.555. If they pass, the sexualization of children in public schools becomes a matter of Federal law, and begins with Kindergarten lectures…paid for by the taxpayers. Kindergartners haven’t mastered all their shapes, colors, numbers, and are just beginning to read. These bills mandate that they begin receiving sex-ed classes to prevent later discrimination against GLBT students. In order to achieve the stated goal, they have to “understand” what GLBT sex is, so of course it must be explained to them…early. How about sticking to the 3 R’s, teach them it’s wrong to bully or discrimminate for any reason, and leave the gender/sexual id questions for the school counselors office.

  47. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 15:52 | #57

    And on another note regarding womens reporductive rights, it would appear that the Governor is not supportive of the current ultrasound bill, as proposed:


  48. Steve Randolph
    February 22nd, 2012 at 16:11 | #58


    I agree with our Governor on this matter.

  49. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 16:13 | #59

    Steve Randolph :http://www.wtop.com/?nid=120&sid=2758082
    I agree with our Governor on this matter.

    I do as well.

  50. Censored bybvbl
    February 22nd, 2012 at 16:50 | #60

    @Steve Thomas

    Saul Alinsky!! OMG!! When you have an original thought and not some pathetic party talking point such as Saul Alinsky, war on religion, or other nonsense, I’ll listen. In the meantime, Planned Parenthood offers birth control to a variety of people in a variety of sexual situations. Not only do sexually active people worry about pregnancy but they worry about STDs as well – and a person doesn’t have to be straight to worry about STDs. Teens who aren’t straight may need info that you don’t want. So what. Do you get to dictate PP’s policies. If you don’t like what they offer, don’t take advantage of it. BTW, I didn’t like my tax dollars being squandered on your war on immigrants either, but my bucks were spent there.

    Can’t cite an instance where PWC or Manassas are sexualizing our schools? As far as kindergarten sex ed. goes, it may be as simple as some kiddos being told that some children have two daddies or only a mommy. Why panic and get all hysterical – unless you can site specifics of the curriculum that prove otherwise.

  51. Steve Thomas
    February 22nd, 2012 at 17:24 | #61

    @Censored bybvbl
    I don’t have to debate you. The left’s time of reckoning is already at hand, or hadn’t you noticed. Happened in November 2010 when they lost all of those state legislatures during redistricting. Obama may hold onto the whitehouse, but the left will lose the Senate. Stand-by.

  52. Censored bybvbl
    February 22nd, 2012 at 17:51 | #62

    @Steve Thomas

    It’s not the left – if there is much “left” left in this country – that you should worry about. It’s women. You’ve already seen how McDonnell has had to backtrack. (And his compromise is not sufficient. He and his R. cronies need to stay out of women’s medical decisions.) You’re whistling past the graveyard about the Senate. Expect to lose some House seats too – though perhaps not the majority.

    In the meantime, I’m off to prepare a celebratory feast for tonight’s debate and foot-shooting. I hope you enjoy the debate as well!

  53. George S. Harris
    February 22nd, 2012 at 19:14 | #63

    I thought you might take this up as a cause as you did with the Wally Covington affair–remember it is your tax dollars they are legally stealing to make themselves look good. Does that not bother you and other PWC bloggers on here? It sure does me to the point I have written to Paul Ebert asking him to investigate the conflict of interest with a view toward prosecution.


    • February 22nd, 2012 at 23:06 | #64

      I am on temporary haitus. I believe Elena is tackling that one. @ Geroge

  54. February 22nd, 2012 at 19:56 | #65

    @Steve Thomas

    Now I am depressed. I feel the need to not stop supporting orgainizations like Planned Parenthood. My solution for conservatives would be to tell your kids not to go near the place.

    Unfortunately, not all kids have parents they can go to. Furthermore, PP has many clients/patients who are not kids. They are adults in need of services. Title X funding is for contraception.

    I can’t cite a situation where local schools have attempted to sexualize kids. I don’t think anything should be taught in schools except the approved FLE program. (at least in our area) I also hope they keep that silly abstainence only course out of the schools. Saying it is silly is a compliment. That is the kind of program that should be coming from parents, if you ask me…and that is if the parents want to do that.

    Steve, I think you sound like that pitchfork crew in the paragraph I am responding to. I know better than that. Neither schools or Planned Parenthood have anything to gain from offering sadicious material. Every Planned Parenthood I have dealt with stresses responsible sexual behavior.

    There will always be an outlier someplace. Its best to look at the norm.

    @Steve Thomas

  55. February 22nd, 2012 at 20:01 | #66

    @Need to Know
    By all means leave rich people alone with their money.

    What is it going to take? The super pacs are already going to decide the outcome of this election.

    We the people is just growing dimmer and dimmer.

    I am still trying to figure out why all of you all are protecting the super rich. @NTK

  56. February 22nd, 2012 at 20:10 | #67

    It sounds like the latest little cowboy is trying to wear too many hats. I can’t even process all that.

  57. February 22nd, 2012 at 20:12 | #68

    @Need to Know

    I would have more respect for the whole deal if Jackson just came in there and said he wanted to develop the land, squish a few houses in and get rich.

    Why all the bs from them?

  58. February 22nd, 2012 at 20:20 | #69

    @Steve Thomas

    PP is for men and women. The reaon people think women is because contraception usually falls on women.

    I know of no schools in this area that are promoting sex. In fact, I would say that the bigger problem comes from the parents who don’t supervise their kids behavior or what the the kids wear to school rather than the other way around.

    Pick up notes kids write if you want a real inside look at what is really going on. Trust me, the schools are quite innocent in 99 out of 100 cases.

  59. February 22nd, 2012 at 20:31 | #70

    @Steve Thomas

    I have heard nothing about this, Steve. Do you have more information?

    I don’t mind kindergarteners learning that mother ducks have baby ducks and they hatch from baby duck eggs, which seems age appropriate to me. I think anything past that can wait.

  60. February 22nd, 2012 at 20:32 | #71

    @Steve Thomas

    Me three if he vetoes the bill. Anything else really is unacceptable. No mandates.

  61. February 22nd, 2012 at 20:35 | #72

    @George, I have taken up the reproductive causes to the point I can do no more.

    What is it else that you want me to do?

  62. Lafayette
    February 23rd, 2012 at 06:59 | #73

    Nice to see the thread is open again!

    • February 23rd, 2012 at 10:04 | #74

      What do you mean thread is open? It has been open hasn’t it? @Lafayette

      What was it doing or not doing?

  63. George S. Harris
    February 23rd, 2012 at 08:00 | #75

    Nothing I suppose. It seems that no one is interested in the BOCS legally stealing your tax dollars. I hope Caddigan, Jenkins and Nohe enjoy their steak dinner paid for by your tax dollars.

  64. Lafayette
    February 23rd, 2012 at 08:13 | #76

    @George S. Harris
    I hope you’ve been following the conversations on discretionary funds on my FB wall. I know quite a few that are interested. The real question is how do we make this spending of our taxdollars end? Not to mention that we are the ONLY local jursidiction that has such a “slush fund”. The Committee of 100 panel last week was most informative and the audience had some excellent questions. I for one like to know why when discretionary funds are used that only the supervisors are mentioned, the taxpayers should be mentioned as well.

    • February 23rd, 2012 at 10:26 | #77

      Absolutely. @Lafayette.

      Every time a gift is offered up during supervisors meeting, the words should contain “on behalf of the people of Prince William County.” Taxpayers would also work.

  65. Steve Thomas
    February 23rd, 2012 at 08:44 | #78



    My point all along has been it is incidents like the one originally cited, that provide enabling arguments to the particular opposition. Within any organization, there are those who want to push the envelope, or broaden the agenda. In the case cited, it was the NJ PP who sponsored the event, and booked a keynote speaker who chose to take a contraversial path. Is this representative of the entire group? No. However, my point (which was obviously lost on someone whose instinctive reaction was to spit and strike) was it is things like the NJ PP conference that inflames the conservative oppostion. To be fair, there have been analogous incidents which get connected with the Tea Party, that have folks like me saying “This does not serve the core issue of smaller government/fiscal conservatism”.

    • February 23rd, 2012 at 11:30 | #79

      Ah, the one bad apple theory. I think there has always been a core of folks out there with a real hatchet out for Planned Parenthood. I wish groups would think before booking controversial speakers. That situation was a perfect storm waiting to rain on someone. And it did.

      Sometimes all common sense leaves people. I actually think that is what has happened to the Virginia General Assembly. While I do not define myself as a liberal on all political issues–far from it in fact–I would define myself as a libertarian regarding reproductive political rights. I like the state out of people’s bedrooms. Use of the term liberal doesn’t offend me as a substitute. Cutting through all the labels, it all has to do with sexuality and how it is perceived. Perhaps I should be asking after all that has happened in the GA, can you see why the progressives…ah…good word…will fight every step of the way not to have these laws imposed upon them.

  66. Steve Thomas
    February 23rd, 2012 at 08:52 | #80

    Moon-howler :@Steve Thomas
    Me three if he vetoes the bill. Anything else really is unacceptable. No mandates.


    If the ammendments the Governor requested are made, and the bill passes both houses, he will sign it. Before you get angry, read the ammended bill, and compare it to what is currently required by law. My understanding is a transabdominal ultrasound is already required by law to determine gestational age, prior to an abortion. The ammended bill restates this. Currently, the doctor does not have to ask the woman if she’d like to see the ultrasound images, nor is the doctor prohibited from asking. The new bill requires the doctor to ask if the woman would like to see it, but she can say “no”. Really, the ammended bill changes nothing.

  67. Steve Thomas
    February 23rd, 2012 at 09:07 | #81

    @Censored bybvbl


    Simple math. The Dems have too many Senate seats to defend. They will lose. Senate races follow state-level trends, not national trends like a Presidential race. Because of the length of Senate terms, and the 1/3 cycle, flipping back Dem will take time.The GOP may lose a few seats in the House, but this was intentional. The remaining GOP seats, post-redistricting will be strongly GOP, and Democrat seats more strongly Democrat. There will be much stability in the numbers for the forseeable future. Only major demographic changes will cause shifts, and these are only measured every 10 years. Sorry, but winds are in your face. Like I said, Obama may sqeak out a win, but the GOP will control the Congress. His SCOTUS appointments will get “Borked”. His agenda will get stymied. I also predict he will eventually be impeached, as the only thing currently preventing the House from bringing articles of impeachment now, is they know the proceedings would fail in the Senate, and it would appear that this is being done for election purposes. If he gets reelected, and when the GOP controls the Senate, nothing prevents the House from moving forward.

    • February 23rd, 2012 at 11:41 | #82

      Borked and impeached? Is that what it has come down to? Actually, as I watched the 2 nights of Clinton and the vicious attacks I thought you could substitute Obama in there and it would fit. The hatred was equal to now. It started long before Clinton even took office.

      I Just don’t want to live my life that way. “I hate you so I will kill you off, regardless of what it does to the country” is politically immoral.

  68. Lafayette
    February 23rd, 2012 at 09:11 | #83

    Thought of you yesterday. I saw the good ole golf carts cruzin’ the complex. The driver and the passenger saw me at the stop sign. I’m sure they knew why I was laughing as drove along solo. Funny thing was there was no “resident” on the back. hmmm. Maybe, they were on their way to a pick up someone in need of assistance. I must be fair.

  69. Lafayette
    February 23rd, 2012 at 10:32 | #85

    Moon-howler :What do you mean thread is open? It has been open hasn’t it? @Lafayette
    What was it doing or not doing?

    Sorry, that my sarcasm escapes you. Censored and Steve were very lively yesterday, that’s all.

  70. George S. Harris
    February 23rd, 2012 at 11:12 | #86

    Yep. I think the way is probably a referendum item but no one seems to know how to make that happen. Apparently it falls to politicians to do it, so what is the likelihood? Probably nil.

  71. Steve Thomas
    February 23rd, 2012 at 12:39 | #87


    I’m just looking at the battlefield and calling it how I see it unfolding.

    • February 23rd, 2012 at 13:54 | #88

      @Steve, better check those polls. The more the hounds of Hell in Richmond unleash, the more of the women’s vote the R’s will lose. I predict a Kaine win. Macaca is a has-been and he now will bear the taint of Bob Marshall and his Taliban-like ilk.

  72. Lafayette
    February 23rd, 2012 at 12:48 | #89

    Moon-howler :@Lafayette
    I hope you waved.

    I certainly did return their wave. :)

  73. Steve Thomas
    February 23rd, 2012 at 15:45 | #90


    You are making the mistake of projecting what is happening locally, to what is going on in the rest of the states. Dems have 37 “safe or not up for reelection” R’s have 42 “safe or not up”Advantage 5 to the R’s. VA is a toss-up, but the GOP can lose the VA race and still take the senate. Nelson (D) will lose in FL. Brown (R) will most likely lose in MA. Stabenow (D) will have a hard fight in MI but will most likely win. McCaskill (D) will lose in MO and Tester (D) will lose in MT. VA (D) and WI (D) are toss ups. But here’s were the real pain comes: NE and ND, both currently held by D’s are open and both are slam-dunk to go R. Seats the GOP have to defend? Snow in ME and an open seat in AZ. Think ME will toss out Snow? Think AZ will go D? Won’t happen. Seats the D’s have to defend: CT, HI (likely D), NM and OH (one or both will likely go R). You were a career math teacher. What does this math say?

    • February 23rd, 2012 at 16:04 | #91


      Lots can happen between now and then. No bets. I believe the problem is going into an election with express purpose not to cooperate and to stonewall someone, rather than seeking solutions to make a better country. That’s the problem and why more and more Indiependents are turning their backs on the R party.

      Remember that the Congress has a 10% approval rating. Borking, stonewalling and obstructing puts the nation at risk. Who really wants that?

      Your problem will continue to be the Independents. You can’t do it alone.

  74. February 23rd, 2012 at 20:25 | #92

    @George S. Harris

    I don’t see a problem with the steak dinner for boys and girls club. I have a problem with discretionary funds. The steak n stake dinner is one of the least objectionable donations. The Prince William Boys and Girls Club of Greater Washington is worthwhile and as long as we have discretionary funds, I won’t bitch if the supervisors donate to it.

    At leat it isn’t $100k. Meanwhile, there needs to be more accountability with discretionary funds starting with all donations need to be made in the name of the taxpayers rather than in the name of the supervisor.

Comments are closed.