Home > General > Open Thread………………………………………..Tuesday, August 19

Open Thread………………………………………..Tuesday, August 19

August 19th, 2014

beawr4What mischief is this chap getting ready to cause?  The little guy wasn’t very old.

The mother was no where to be seen.  That’s unusual.

I am reminded of the advice hikers give when being confronted by a bear.  Look Large.

Looking Large isn’t just for those confronting bears.  People in politics also Look Large.   Looking Large attempts to throw off one’s contenders.  Birds do the same thing.  They Look Large by puffing their feathers up.  Some birds can look twice their size.

Some dogs and cats can do this trick also.

 

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  1. Cargosquid
    August 19th, 2014 at 13:05 | #1

    I was in DC for a few days.
    If you go and are looking for a good dinner….. go to Medium Rare near the Marine Barracks at 8th and I. Steak sliced thin and steak fries….with a delicious sauce. Free french bread. Best Key Lime pie that I’ve had. Huge sundaes.

    20 bucks for the dinner. desserts run about 7-8 dollars. Ice tea was either 3 or 4 dollars.

    That’s all they serve. Steak.
    Oh..and you get a second helping.

  2. August 20th, 2014 at 08:48 | #2

    What on earth were you doing in DC? You didn’t even let us know you were coming our way.

    Thanks for the eats tip.

  3. Cargosquid
    August 21st, 2014 at 01:45 | #3

    I was on vacation. Wife thought DC would be a nice quick vacation.
    Staycation.
    Went up suddenly on Tues and came back on Sat. Then I went down to Newport News yesterday and came back today.

    Ah’mmmm tiiiiiiiired.

    • August 21st, 2014 at 07:46 | #4

      What did you do in Newport News? I love the war museum there. My parents lived there during the war. I guess my dad worked in the ship yard until he enlisted a year to the date after Pearl Harbor. New Jersey was trying to draft him. Not sure how all that worked.

  4. Cargosquid
    August 21st, 2014 at 09:45 | #5

    The Mariners Museum has a great dinosaur exhibit on sea reptiles, with replicas of the fossils.
    And the USS Monitor exhibit is there.
    The Living Museum has animatronic dinosaurs.
    My wife loves dinosaurs.
    We drove down for a short getaway, stayed at a hotel overnight….had a hot tub!….. and then went to the museums the next day and came home.

  5. Emma
    August 21st, 2014 at 19:24 | #6

    Three cheers for the CDC in sending the two medical missionaries home to their families to convalesce, no longer contagious! What a victory for public health research, too

  6. Friar Tuck
    August 22nd, 2014 at 05:56 | #8

    The BOCS is on hiatus. The Sheriff also seems to be on hiatus. Think there is a connection?

  7. August 22nd, 2014 at 10:09 | #9

    Who knows of neat cabin rentals in Virginia or west Virginia? River front desirable.

    I need something new this fall. Any suggestions?

  8. Rick Bentley
    August 22nd, 2014 at 10:28 | #10

    Having had time to think about this, I don’t agree with letting the two medical missionaries back into the US with Ebola. Terrible precedent.

  9. Pat.Herve
    August 22nd, 2014 at 13:45 | #11

    @Moon-howler
    Lake Anna State Park (I know, it is a lake, not a river). The right cabins are very near the water.

    http://www.reserveamerica.com/camping/lake-anna-state-park/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=VA&parkId=140175

  10. Pat.Herve
    August 22nd, 2014 at 13:47 | #13

    @Rick Bentley
    Rick,

    it is scary, but how would you (a US citizen) feel if it were you/your spouse who needed emergency medical care and wanted to return to the US? We should feel very lucky that there has not been an outbreak here already.

  11. clueless
    August 22nd, 2014 at 14:36 | #14

    Shenandoah River State Park is only about 1 hour away and also has cabins on the river. great float trips and fishing.

  12. Rick Bentley
    August 22nd, 2014 at 14:38 | #15

    I feel that they took a personal risk going over there to work within an outbreak, and it is incorrect to put everyone here at risk because of that choice.

    Part of the calculus was presumably that we wanted to get this experimental vaccine tested on them. The one that the company has no capability to manufacture yet, but which the rest of the world thinks that we’re hoarding.

  13. punchak
    August 22nd, 2014 at 14:48 | #16

    @Moon-howler
    Algonkian Park in Sterling or thereabout
    on the shore of the Potomac.

  14. ed myers
    August 22nd, 2014 at 15:18 | #17

    @Rick Ebola is easy to control with modern medical facilities. The lessons learned by experimenting on those two missionaries will save lots of lives and reduces the risk that you personally will be exposed to Ebola in the future. From a purely selfish reason you should want American expertise on this disease.

  15. Emma
    August 22nd, 2014 at 15:24 | #18

    @Rick Bentley They weren’t putting anyone at risk by bringing the two here. This was a fantastic opportunity for research. The two patients likely left behind blood/body fluid/tissue that will help further understanding of Ebola and advance a cure.

    You do realize that Ebola is just one plane ride away from us, right? We’re a global society. Why not be proactive, rather than wait until the disease, which has a 90% case fatality rate, becomes pandemic?

    Sometimes the government gets it right. They brought home a deserter in exchange for 5 top-shelf Al Qaeda operatives. How, then, would it even be rational that we let two Americans, overseas doing lifesaving work (and giving people there a favorable impression of Americans) just die there? Because you don’t like their religion?

  16. Rick Bentley
    August 22nd, 2014 at 17:47 | #19

    “How, then, would it even be rational that we let two Americans, overseas doing lifesaving work (and giving people there a favorable impression of Americans) just die there? ”

    So where do you draw the line, Emma? Should we let any American infected with ebola come back into the US, while in a contagious state? Or only the good Christian ones?

    For that matter, do you want to let non-American Christians in? If they’re good people?

  17. Rick Bentley
    August 22nd, 2014 at 17:50 | #20

    Also, i think the “favorable impression of Americans” that you mention went away when we took them in here, while leaving the people they wanted to help to their own devices.

  18. Emma
    August 22nd, 2014 at 17:52 | #21

    @Rick Bentley
    Wow, you get an A-plus for deflection.

    No one here was put at risk. Your fear is irrational. This was the perfect opportunity for research and healing to happen simultaneously.

  19. Emma
    August 22nd, 2014 at 17:58 | #22

    @Rick Bentley If we experimented with ZMapp on Africans, then we’d be accused of using helpless, diseased people as laboratory rats if the outcomes were adverse. Remember, it’s still in the R&D phase.

  20. Rick Bentley
    August 22nd, 2014 at 18:20 | #23

    I do understand – I read this : http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/guinea/qa-experimental-treatments.html

    But I think it’s bad precedent to let people with very dangerous communicable diseases back in the country – that’s where I draw the line. You haven’t really mentioned where you would draw it at.

  21. Emma
    August 22nd, 2014 at 20:30 | #24

    How do you propose we come up with a way to stop Ebola if it spreads here? You know it could happen in a day in one plane trip, and odds are that person would not step off a plane immediately into protective isolation like the two missionaries did. This was an opportunity to be proactive and not just wait for the disease to spread. I don’t have all the answers as to where the line is drawn.

    Are you aware of the killer pathogens that are stored right here in Manassas at ATCC? How secure do you think that facility is?

    • August 23rd, 2014 at 09:45 | #25

      Those killer pathogens are far more scary to me than sick Americans in the most controlled environment imaginable.

      Thank you for sharing your knowledge base on this issue, Emma.

  22. Rick Bentley
    August 22nd, 2014 at 20:41 | #26

    Hey, I’m all in favor of testing a vaccine. I don;t think it’s necessary to fly a patient in here to test it, though.

    • August 23rd, 2014 at 09:47 | #27

      The environment to cure them is here, not in some third world country that lacks the facility and tools to ensure that they get well. They are also Americans. ONe was a doctor and the other a missionary. Hardly subversives.

  23. Emma
    August 22nd, 2014 at 20:54 | #28

    ZMapp is a treatment, not a vaccine. How are you going to test it in Africa without putting more Americans at risk for disease and being accused of killing Africans if it goes awry?

    Just curious. You’re entitled to your opinion.

  24. Rick Bentley
    August 23rd, 2014 at 00:36 | #29

    I don’t know. I see your point.

    But I still worry about this precedent, letting people with infectous diseases in.

    • August 23rd, 2014 at 09:48 | #30

      Those two weren’t just people. They were Americans. Do we ever keep Americans out of their own country?

  25. Pat.Herve
    August 23rd, 2014 at 07:23 | #31

    @Rick Bentley
    Rick,

    my worry is those with the diseases that are not being treated or that are coming in without us knowing. I am surprised that we have not had an ebola outbreak already (we are overdue). When one travels overseas there is often a ‘screening’ that is done to detect people with fever or noticeable signs of illness, but not in the US.

  26. Rick Bentley
    August 23rd, 2014 at 15:59 | #32

    Majority of likely voters do not believe illegal immigrant children should be allowed to enroll in school here – http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/august_2014/should_local_schools_admit_the_latest_illegal_immigrants

    • August 23rd, 2014 at 17:16 | #33

      I guess that’s just too bad because it is established law that they are to be allowed in school.

      That’s something that hasn’t been thought out. Why would voters want an ignorant underclass here?

    • August 23rd, 2014 at 17:27 | #34

      Most voters are playing with rumor also, rather than basic facts. The kids in PWC will not be attending public school. Their school will be at YFT.

      Basically, I wonder how many of those same voters would prefer that Brown vs Board of Education had never been established law. Hmmm…something to think about.

  27. Rick Bentley
    August 24th, 2014 at 10:55 | #35

    “Why would voters want an ignorant underclass here?”

    I don’t think they want those kids here at all. I know that I don’t (because it’s only going to encourage more and more to come here).

  28. punchak
    August 24th, 2014 at 16:46 | #36

    6.0 magnitude earthquake struck this morning
    ca 6 miles soutwest of Napa north of San Francisco.
    Many injuries.

    Anpther happening in nature
    Vatnajokull in Iceland is rumbling dangerously.
    Could be another ash rain.

  29. Cato the Elder
    August 26th, 2014 at 22:46 | #37

    Remember Michael Sam?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/michael-sam-helps-twitter-user-save-face-johnny-manziel-bet-article-1.1916129

    How great is it that he sacked that little shit Manziel not once but twice?

  30. Cargosquid
    August 27th, 2014 at 10:07 | #38

    Well…the illegal alien problem has been solved. Apparently a state can’t enforce immigration law but can break the law and ignore it without federal worries.

    Gov. Brown, in California, has stated that EVERY and ALL illegal alien is welcome in HIS state.
    Send them all there.

  31. Starry flights
    August 27th, 2014 at 13:53 | #39

    Nullification.cuts both ways, Cargo , hahaha

  32. Starry flights
    August 27th, 2014 at 13:56 | #40

    Shooting instructor dies after girl accidentally shoots him in the head with an Uzi

    An Arizona shooting instructor died after the 9-year-old girl he was teaching to use an Uzi accidentally shot him in the head, according to the Associated Press.

    Charles Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl Monday morning, offering instruction at a shooting range in White Hill, about an hour southeast of Las Vegas, authorities told Phoenix station KTVK.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/26/shooting-instructor-dies-after-girl-accidentally-shoots-him-in-the-head-with-an-uzi/

    2nd Amendment rights

    • August 27th, 2014 at 18:40 | #41

      I would think that the range would have the final say-so over what kind of weapon a kid got to fire and what kind of weapons were allowed on the range.

      Screw rights. business owners should decide what they want on their property and don’t, along with the rules.

  33. punchak
    August 27th, 2014 at 15:03 | #42

    Read that this morning with amazement. How can a shooting
    range allow a 9 year old to hold a loaded UZI?
    Not to mention a parent!

  34. Cargosquid
    August 27th, 2014 at 16:53 | #43

    @Starry flights
    What about 2nd Amendment rights?
    This is about negligence. Both the instructor and the parent.

    They allowed a child to operate dangerous machinery without the proper supervision.
    Each “machine gun” is different, as are children. My daughter, at ten years old, operated a submachine gun with no problems. Of course, the gun we picked had low recoil and the owner controlled her body movements. WWII MP-40.

    What a shame.

    • August 27th, 2014 at 18:43 | #44

      I actually don’t know why a 10 year old needs to be operating a machine gun.

      sorry, on my soap box…I have three different friends who are gun nuts. Each of them had told me that their children knew how to handle guns, rules blah blah blah. They know not to touch weapons unless daddy was there. blah blah blah. All three escaped disaster. Kids got hold of the guns when the parents weren’t home and shot up walls, by accident. They are all three lucky no one was killed. The 3 people I know didn’t know each other.

      There is a lesson there somewhere.

  35. Pat.Herve
    August 27th, 2014 at 16:58 | #45

    That poor girl will live with this guilt all her life – because her parents chose to let her do something, when they should have said No!.

  36. Scout
    August 27th, 2014 at 19:57 | #46

    It’s tragic for the dead man and his family and equally or more so for the little girl. Where is common sense in all this? I hope someone can say simply and bluntly to her that this is not her fault, she could not help what happened. Nonetheless, her sense of security and confidence will be completely destroyed now that she realizes that she lives in a world where the adults who are supposed to care for and protect her have no more sense and judgment than a jellyfish.

  37. Starryflights
    August 27th, 2014 at 21:33 | #47

    Guns are not toys. Call me a crazy liberal but there should be laws against allowing children to play with guns.

  38. Lyssa
    August 27th, 2014 at 21:53 | #48

    An UZI???? Should be laws against some parents.

  39. Cargosquid
    August 28th, 2014 at 00:17 | #49

    @Starryflights
    There ARE laws against children to “play” with guns.

    @Moon-howler
    In my case, it was strictly supervised.

  40. Cargosquid
    August 28th, 2014 at 01:17 | #50

    This is what is being said about the shooting tragedy on the gun blogs.
    Seems it was a “mini-uzi.” A much harder to control weapon than most. The instructor was an idiot.

    http://www.pagunblog.com/2014/08/26/lessons-not-learned/
    If we in the firearms community want to keep being able to play with NFA toys, we’re going to have to get the message out that people need to exercise a tremendous amount of care in instructing people how to shoot them. Nine is way too young to have the experience and physical strength to control a machine pistol on full auto. The antis are already running with this story, and you can bet they will bring up this is the second time this has happened. God help save us from ourselves.

  41. Scout
    August 28th, 2014 at 07:46 | #51

    I don’t see this as a gun issue, I see it as a parent issue. It’s would be the same situation if the parents let the girl play with a King Cobra.

  42. Starry flights
    August 28th, 2014 at 10:04 | #52

    I know of no zoos or other such structures that allow kids to play with dangerous animals under adult supervision. That gun range in Arizona however allows just that.

    @Scout

    @Cargosquid This incident also occurred despite strict supervision.

  43. Cargosquid
    August 28th, 2014 at 15:18 | #53

    @Starry flights
    No…it didn’t. It happened with adults standing next to her.
    Strict supervision includes controlling her arms and body during firing.
    It also means, Don’t give a child a weapon KNOWN to be be difficult to control.

  44. Rick Bentley
    August 28th, 2014 at 15:23 | #54

    “There ARE laws against children to “play” with guns.”

    I don;t think that’s true. There are laws against letting them play with guns unsupervised.

  45. Scout
    August 28th, 2014 at 19:02 | #55

    I take your point Starry, that the range should have just said NO. But I still feel that this represents a fundamental failure of parents to show even an iota of judgement concerning the safety and welfare of the child. The parent level was where this all broke down catastrophically.

  46. ed myers
    August 29th, 2014 at 11:59 | #56

    There isn’t a liberty interest violation in this case as everyone involved were willing participants and the wrongful death will likely be covered by liability insurance of the range. If all gun “accidents” were similarly covered I would be less interested in restricting gun use. Alas, gun owners can “accidently” fire their weapon and severely injure someone with no compensation for the added cost of care and/or loss in income. Gun owners should be forced to buy gun insurance and insurance should pay for uninsured gun injuries (i.e. following the motorist uninsured vehicle provisions.) Only then will the rights of non-gun owners/victims be raised to the level of gun owners. Since gun owners resist being held accountable for the damage cause by misuse of their weapons, we have to restrict gun ownership and restrict the freedom to carry guns everywhere to reduce potential deaths and injury to innocent victims.

  47. Wolve
    August 29th, 2014 at 21:30 | #57

    Wow! The Washington Post Editorial Board (29 August) gave POTUS a whopping big spanking for his loss of focus and lack of leadership with regard to global challenges such as Ukraine-Russia and ISIS-Iraq-Syria. That includes POTUS statements which have clearly contradicted those of his top foreign policy and security players concerning the current and potential seriousness of the various situations abroad.

    When even your “friends” start going for the the punishment paddle………..

  48. Wolve
    August 30th, 2014 at 19:14 | #59

    He could start by not making announcements like the last one where he seems to be adrift and clueless. Even if a leader is stymied for the moment, he doesn’t go up to the podium and look like it. Nor should he have to contradict what his own top security and policy aids have said. As a leader of a tight ship he is supposed to tell them what he wants said. I have never seen the liberal MSM so puzzled by and critical of the actions of their own favorite — at least not since Embassy Tehran was taken over in 1979.

    As for what to do exactly, I no longer have access to appropriate intelligence or to in-depth data on our capabilities for action. Ergo, my own recommendations for specific action would only be uniformed guesses. But I would like to see some strong leadership qualities from the very top, regardless of political differences on a whole raft of other things. This is not a partisan matter. From my own professional experiences, this thing is a serious threat. Leadership, please.

    • August 30th, 2014 at 20:53 | #60

      I think some of that was taken out of context. He was asked a specific question about something, I don’t recall what. The response wasn’t as inappropriate as what we heard on the news. I wish I could remember but I felt better.

    • August 31st, 2014 at 02:43 | #61

      Politico:
      His remarks drew criticism from many Republicans and conservative media outlets, many of whom said the comments confirm that the president has been disengaged from the world and is weak on foreign policy.

      On Friday, though, Scarborough said he would have done something similar if he were president as a way to prevent the enemy from knowing his plan. “If I’m about to attack another country, I would say, you know what, we don’t have a strategy, we’re still working it out,” he said.

      “When you’re strong, you make your enemies think you’re weak,” he added.

      Scarborough also seemed receptive to a comment from Huffington Post White House correspondent Sam Stein, who said some have suggested that Obama was signaling to Europe that the U.S. will not shoulder the “entire burden” in combating ISIL.

      Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/joe-scarborough-isil-obama-plan-110441.html#ixzz3BwvMm0Vw

  49. Wolve
    August 30th, 2014 at 19:16 | #62

    Make that “uninformed guesses” I no longer wear a uniform either.

  50. Cargosquid
    August 30th, 2014 at 23:40 | #63

    @ed myers
    I’m sorry…but no.

    You do not get to restrict a right by demanding requirements to use it.

    Accidents can happen. The perpetrator is liable. They can be sued, like any other person. They can also be charged with crimes. Criminal actions will not be covered. Most injuries are due to criminal acts.

    Homeowner’s liability covers personal injury due to negligence or accident.

  51. Rick Bentley
    August 31st, 2014 at 12:10 | #64

    So, rather than providing discincentive for illegal immigrants and children to come here, we’re running ads in Mexico trying to encourage those who self-deported to come back – http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/28/Feds-Agree-Buy-Ads-on-Mexican-Media-Place-Billboards-on-Border-to-Reach-Deported-Illegals-Allowed-to-Return

    This is why I’m not going to vote for the Democratic Party again. No more voting for me. The one side (Republicans) are trying desperately to crawl back into childhood, and the other (Democrats) are actually working against any sense of structure and building an America with no wage protection and no safety net. I’m giving up on any pretense that the future is going to be something I can recognize or relate to.

    • August 31st, 2014 at 13:39 | #65

      I never read Breitbart. He was a prevaricator.

      I don’t understand enough about the court case to even comment. I would like more facts..

  52. Censored by SoN
    August 31st, 2014 at 19:35 | #66

    SoN has become the new BVBL – only interested in Groupthink. Apparently, posters must agree with the Big S and revere his Supervisor.

    • September 1st, 2014 at 05:04 | #67

      There do seem to be similarities.

      I am very leery of blogs that seem to start up in support of one person at the expense of all others. Strange how that happened with both Gainesville Truth Squad and SoN.

      Truth or myopic one-sided perspective?

  53. Ed Myers
    August 31st, 2014 at 20:29 | #68

    @cargo.. Voting is a right but we have restrictions on exercising it: age, photo ID, not being a felon, etc. Your view that fundamental rights are unregulatable is wrong. SCOTUS isn’t hot on the notion that 2nd amendment gives you super-rights without regulation. Regulations to prevent gun violence victims is a compelling state interest and as long as the regulations are the minimum restrictions required to achieve that goal the regulations are likely constitutional.

  54. Wolve
    August 31st, 2014 at 22:09 | #69

    @Moon-howler

    Actually, I think that Scarborough was being rather silly. A leader can look strong and determined without revealing his plans. Imagine if FDR had gone to the podium after 7 December 1941 and told everyone to wait because he didn’t have a plan yet. Certainly Pearl Harbor was of greater historical moment than this ISIS case. But FDR also didn’t really know for sure what our next moves would be in 1941. Nevertheless, he certainly gave confidence to his listeners everywhere that America could and would kick some serious ass.

    • September 1st, 2014 at 05:10 | #70

      I don’t see a comparable here.

      I don’t think Scarborough was “being silly.” I think he was attempting to explain criticism of words taken out of context. You don’t hear the question that was asked and the President’s entire answer. That is the important thing to remember.

  55. Rick Bentley
    August 31st, 2014 at 22:35 | #71

    Yeah, my initial thought on Iraq coming apart again was that it wasn’t Obama’s fault – that in fact it was an inevitable occurrence, a reality that Bush and the neocons have lived in denial of.

    But Obama should have had some thoughts on the matter by now. He seems detached in a dangerous way. Drifting. Content to let subordinates do the work. Content to go golfing rather than to try to galvanize Americans.

  56. Cargosquid
    August 31st, 2014 at 22:52 | #72

    @Ed Myers
    Compelling a person to buy insurance is the same as a poll tax. Thus…no.

    Those interested in creating those requirements cannot be trusted to keep the requirements at a minimum and not to abuse them. Gun control advocates routinely lie and then push the goal posts for “just one more “commonsense” rule.

    • September 1st, 2014 at 05:13 | #73

      Those rascally common sense rules!

      So you think people should just be able to drive vehicles anywhere and the driver gets to decide if he or she carries insurance? Bullcrap.

  57. Rick Bentley
    September 1st, 2014 at 11:32 | #74

    That only works if you’re an illegal immigrant.

  58. Wolve
    September 1st, 2014 at 21:59 | #75

    Very good response, Mr. Bentley.

  59. September 1st, 2014 at 23:07 | #76

    @Rick Bentley
    That is a real problem. They aren’t allowed to carry insurance on cars because they aren’t allowed to have licenses.

    I would prefer a tier 2 iicense and mandatory insurance, having been the victim of that issue.

  60. Ed Myers
    September 2nd, 2014 at 06:58 | #77

    A poll tax is intended to prevent poor people from voting. There is no justification for that. But we do require people to register to prevent fraud. Requiring gun insurance, like requiring voter registration, is a minimum government intrusion into a right in order to prevent abuse. Without regulation the only rights people have are those that they can get through force. We do not want a society in which the only people with rights that are respected are those with guns who are willing to kill others.

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:23 | #78

      When I was a kid I asked about that poll tax and was told it was “to keep colored people from voting.” I also asked about the back of the bus and got strong armed so I would shut up and stop embarrassing my mother.

      Stuff like that doesn’t make sense to little kids.

  61. Cargosquid
    September 2nd, 2014 at 07:46 | #79

    @Ed Myers
    Requiring insurance pushes the cost of gun ownership out of the hands of poor people. Many locales require arbitrary conditions to restrict gun ownership. They were all instigated to restrict minority ownership.

    Since we have owned guns since day one…and we DON’T have a society in which the only people with rights that are respected are those with guns who are willing to kill others……your fears are completely overblown.

    Voter registration protects your right to vote. Gun registration does not protect your 2nd Amendment rights. The civil right to vote is not the same as a civil liberty such as the 2nd Amendment. States have historically put conditions upon who could vote and the requirements to do so. It was only “recently” that that changed. The state cannot restrict your right without due process. Civil liberties are protections against government actions. Civil rights, in contrast, refer to positive actions that government should take to create equal conditions for all Americans. That is the difference between “shall not be infringed” and setting conditions for voting.

    @Moon-howler
    Actually, yes. The government should not be mandating a requirement for citizens to purchase a product from a third party. However, since one does not have a right to drive a car, the state has ruled that requiring insurance is a valid requirement for utilizing the privilege of driving.

    The right to keep and bear arms is an inalienable natural right, not a privilege. It is a civil liberty.

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:35 | #80

      Ah, sort of like abortion is a civil liberty. See where that gets you. I just watched “After Tiller” this morning. Anyone can take your civil liberties.

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:36 | #81

      Keeping and bearing arms is very vague. That’s the reason I don’t have a nuclear weapon.

  62. Cargosquid
    September 2nd, 2014 at 07:48 | #82

    @Moon-howler
    OR………

    we could actually enforce the immigration laws and deport the illegal aliens that are found driving.

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:38 | #83

      Some of them are deported. Do you want to deport those riding bikes also? That’s often a dead giveaway.

  63. Rick Bentley
    September 2nd, 2014 at 08:03 | #84

    “we could actually enforce the immigration laws and deport the illegal aliens that are found driving.”

    Yeah, we could. But that would mean less cheap labor to undercut wages. And, it might hurt democratic chances in the 2016 elections.

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:39 | #85

      Rick, explain to me how that is going to hurt Democratic chances? I am calling BS on that one. Since when can illegal immigrants vote?

  64. Rick Bentley
    September 2nd, 2014 at 08:30 | #86

    Who wants to pay a few cents more for their McDonald’s burger? Or see American citizens working jobs as janitors and landscapers? Better to let them all stay and just pray they can read the traffic signs.

  65. punchak
    September 2nd, 2014 at 09:51 | #87

    Don’t you know that American citizens were not meant to work
    as janitors and landscapers? Or to sweep floors and wash dishes in
    restaurant kitchens. And for Pete’s sake – no American woman
    should ever have to change sheets and scrub toilets in cheap motels.

  66. Ed Myers
    September 2nd, 2014 at 09:59 | #88

    Cars are an updated version of horses. We grandfathered transportation by horse without insurance. We can do the same for guns. Any single shot gun with muzzle loading does not need insurance. Guns with multi-shot capability do. If gun owners want the added power and convenience of modern weapons that can kill many people quickly, then it comes with restrictions. If you want the freedom as agreed to by the founders, no problem….just stick with the same antique hardware and stop moving the goal posts of ever more lethal “rights”.

    The right to travel freely within the US is just as much a civil right as free speech (especially after slavery was abolished.)

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:43 | #89

      Ed, I particularly like your opening sentence about horses.

      You make some very good points.

      My problem continues to be these high powered rifles that seem to fall into the hands of the crazed. I don’t have a solution but I sure do see problems.

  67. Cargosquid
    September 2nd, 2014 at 10:50 | #90

    @Ed Myers
    The right to travel IS recognized. Start walking.
    Driving a car is considered a privilege. You do not have a right to drive a car on public roads. I don’t agree with that interpretation, but the courts have not recognized a right to drive.

    If you want the freedom of speech as agreed to by the founders, no problem….just stick with the same antique hardware and stop moving the goal posts of ever more widespread dangerous speech. Stick to your voice and the printing press.

    If I had the same rights as our Founders, I would have access to the same equipment as the military. We had privately owned cannon, armed ships, privately raised militias, etc. Still want me to “stick” with what the Founders had?

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:47 | #91

      Then there was Blackbeard…. Poor dude’s rights were violated all the time.

  68. Cargosquid
    September 2nd, 2014 at 10:53 | #92

    @Ed Myers
    This is what happens when you have a society terrified of guns and afraid of free speech.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/in-cambridge-md-a-soviet-style-punishment-for-a-novelist/379431/

    excerpt:
    A 23-year-old teacher at a Cambridge, Md. middle school has been placed on leave and—in the words of a local news report—”taken in for an emergency medical evaluation” for publishing, under a pseudonym, a novel about a school shooting. The novelist, Patrick McLaw, an eighth-grade language-arts teacher at the Mace’s Lane Middle School, was placed on leave by the Dorchester County Board of Education, and is being investigated by the Dorchester County Sheriff’s Office, according to news reports from Maryland’s Eastern Shore. The novel, by the way, is set 900 years in the future. . . .

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:13 | #93

      Where did he publish? There is a lot of information missing here. Did he exhibit abnormal behavior? Were student names used?

      I think you might be jumping to conclusions–the conclusions that go along with your own world view.

      There might just be way too much information involved in the “novel” such as school name, students, various locations in the school. If I were in charge, something like that might make me very edgy.

    • September 2nd, 2014 at 11:20 | #94

      You might want to ask why you think there is a society terrified by guns. How about the 30,000 deaths a year by gunshot wound?

      Guns have one purpose. Spare me the bullcrap about marksmanship. Their purpose is to stop something or someone in its tracks. Unlike cars, that is the only purpose. Cars are often used as a strawman. Cars are to transport people and things from point A to point B.

      People walking around armed to the teeth do nothing to exacerbate that fear. It doesn’t help that the people who often walk around visible armed look like Charles Manson’s first cousin.

  69. Pat.Herve
    September 2nd, 2014 at 12:01 | #95

    @Cargosquid
    so, you are defending tenure?

  70. September 2nd, 2014 at 15:14 | #96

    [raising hand!] I can defend tenure!! I can defend tenure! Call on me, Mr. Kotter.

  71. ed myers
    September 2nd, 2014 at 20:45 | #97

    Went back-to-school shopping last weekend at a second-hand store. Some dude with sunglasses and a motorcycle gang tee shirt and lots of ink walked in with a handgun strapped on. When he didn’t remove his sunglasses and swaggered a bit I decided that this was not a good situation and rounded up my family and left. On the way out I told the manager that if other patrons were so fearful of violent crime occurring in the store that they had to bring their own guns that the store had a serious security problem and I would not shop again there until it was fixed. She explained that since they did not post a “no guns” sign that people could legally open carry in the store.

    Who deserved to shop in the store? The guy who felt insecure without his gun or someone who felt insecure because others had guns. This isn’t a constitutional rights issue since it is private property and the store owner gets to decide what works best. If you are a store owner would you place a “guns welcomed” or “No guns” sign in your front door?

  72. ed myers
    September 2nd, 2014 at 20:57 | #98

    @Cargo You might want to go back and read the updates to that story you posted. The additional information ruins your conspiracy theory.

  73. ed myers
    September 2nd, 2014 at 21:06 | #99

    @Cargo, I’m ok with you having muzzle loaded guns, even cannons to defend your home or person. When I see you start to load one on the sidewalk or in a store I’ll have enough time to put distance between us even without a motor vehicle. Seems fair to me.

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