LaVoy+Finicum+Anti+Government+Protestors+Occupy+gckm_d5gbrAl

Washingtonpost.com:

“It needs to be very clear that these buildings will never, ever return to the federal government,” said LaVoy Finicum, one of the leaders of the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.”

Tinicum’s words sound to be like enemy take over of our lands.  They get what they deserve including being shot.yI am all for not making martyrs of these criminals but they also have seized government property.

They need to be removed.  Apparently they have free egress to come and go at will.  That needs to stop.  Let’s see how long they last with limited food and water.  They want to play hardball.  So do I.

 

62 thoughts on “Anti-government bad-boys trumpet their take-over

  1. Wolve

    Water won’t be a problem as long as there is snow on the ground. Food? I don’t know. But one of them did make the mistake of driving a federal vehicle to a local grocery store in town and was arrested for vehicle theft there.

    1. One also makes most of his living (over $100k a year) from taking in foster children. What could possibly be wrong with that?

  2. Cargosquid

    I say, let them winter over in the snow. Blockade the area and prevent supplies from coming in. If someone tries to leave….arrest them for trespassing.

    1. What would we do if they had taken over the Pentagon?

  3. nateX

    Well, if they were black and took over an abandoned apartment building in Philadelphia, we’d drop a bomb on them and kill 16 people, including 5 children.

    But since that won’t happen, they should cut power to the building, blockade the roads to prevent supplies from getting in and arrest anyone trying to leave. Either hunger or cold will force these terrorists out eventually.

  4. Pat.Herve

    These yahoo’s do not think the laws should apply to them. The entrance should be blockaded and prevent all entry. If they wish to leave, let them. Must be disappointing to them if they can come and go as they please.

  5. Ed Myers

    I say let people from around the country come and offer support if they want. At least then we know who the domestic terrorists are and can put them all on a no fly list or in jail.

    1. I vote for both. I have a really bad attitude about these people. I didn’t like it when people in my generation took over college buildings etc. I haven’t grown any fonder of that behavior as an older woman. Make that vintage woman 🙄

  6. Pat.Herve

    @Moon-howler
    Moon, you bring up a good point. All those complaining about sit in’s at colleges are the same that are rooting for these yahoo’s taking over the Refuge buildings and think they are in the right. Pepper spray the college kids but leave these guys alone attitude.

    1. Yea. I don’t see the difference. Back in the day, they tear gassed them and dragged them out by the hair of the head.

      That’s what needs to happen here.

  7. Cargosquid

    @Ed Myers
    What terror act did they do, if all they did was bring a box of food? Or if a package is delivered by UPS? You going to put the guys who are sending prank donations in jail?

    How very fascist of you, Ed. Why is it that your go to solution is putting people in jail?

  8. Cargosquid

    @Pat.Herve
    If the college students had done this in a wildlife refuge closed for the winter, no one would have cared or reported it.

    @nateX
    If they were being forcibly evicted and resisting arrest, they would be shot. Just like the MOVE members. Oh…look…gov’t forces like to over react. See Waco and Ruby Ridge. Not racism. Statism.

    1. College students wouldn’t be that stupid.

  9. Going on record that the government will never reclaim its own buildings to me is an act of war.

    I know how this kind of behavior was treated back in the day.

    How about the terrorists stopping traffic on the Bay Bridge …chaining themselves to each other and the bridge? Jail for them also.

    My patience grows short.

  10. Starry flights

    Cut off ther water and power and don’t allow anyone in

    1. Then someone would be whining and crying about their discomfort. Boo effete hoo.

  11. Steve Thomas

    Cargosquid :
    @Pat.Herve
    If the college students had done this in a wildlife refuge closed for the winter, no one would have cared or reported it.
    @nateX
    If they were being forcibly evicted and resisting arrest, they would be shot. Just like the MOVE members. Oh…look…gov’t forces like to over react. See Waco and Ruby Ridge. Not racism. Statism.

    While I don’t support their actions, I have to wonder why all those left-wing/socialist/anarchists in the occupy movement where given so much leeway, but it’s “off to the gulag” for this bunch. Both took over public spaces, so it can’t be that. The urban occupiers fouled the space with trash, hypodermic needles and drug paraphernalia, and worse…human excrement. Clean-up crews were forced to wear hazmat suits, and there was a huge rat infestation that lingered afterwards. Rapes and other crimes occurred in the camps, and there were several acts of vandalism reported, including protectors defecating in office lobbies, and on police cars.

    I don’t seem to recall the same level of outrage here, then as opposed to now.

    1. OWS was a mix. There were the people who weren’t filthy pigs but who had a political message. Then there were the urban occupiers who had issues. The street people got in the act. I sort of agreed with them as far as their message…regarding Wall Street. Then the message got lost in the circus.

      I can only explain my own outrage here….take over of a government owned building by the same clowns who want to graze for free and who blocked I-15. They are terrorists because they have this armed anti government resistance. I would slap them with RICCO laws.

      Occupy was different. Too many different breeds of cats in that mix to feel outrage. I think I just wanted it to go away. I feel that those people (the political ones) are like those ass-hats that follow the World money people around. Professional protestors. That’s just what they do.

  12. nateX

    One big difference with the Occupy Movement was that Occupy was a NONviolent movement. These terrorists are armed and dangerous. An unarmed occupation is a demonstration. An armed occupation is an act of terrorism.

    1. Primarily. However, the movement attracted people who were violent. It was just different.

      I believe the situation in Oregon is a form of terrorism. I have had the misfortune of meeting people sort of like this while visiting friends in the west. People who think like this think they can violate the law, all too easily. These are not law-abiding citizens.

  13. Cargosquid

    @nateX
    Sure were a lot of acts of violence in the OCCUPY camps.

    The current OCCUPY Wilderness movement is armed. So far, it is non-violent. Being armed is not violent.

    An armed occupation of a closed for the winter building in the middle of wilderness is not an act of terrorism but an act of stupidity.
    The way to get rid of them is to either laugh at them or ignore them.

  14. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :
    Going on record that the government will never reclaim its own buildings to me is an act of war.
    I know how this kind of behavior was treated back in the day.
    How about the terrorists stopping traffic on the Bay Bridge …chaining themselves to each other and the bridge? Jail for them also.
    My patience grows short.

    Patience is exactly what is needed here, and I think the feds taking a softer approach than in previous stand-offs is prudent. The last thing this country needs is a shootout between parties. I agree with limiting access, however, “starving them out” might be seen as inhumane.

    This is different from the Bundy Ranch. That was a case of defending against what one could argue as an unlawful taking of property, by agents of the federal government. The protesters posture was defensive, and they where on private land, with the permission of the owner. The current standoff shares none of these characteristics, save the sir names of a couple of the participants. Wait them out. It’s a long way till spring.

    1. Until the Cliven Bundy group decided to block I-15, a major interstate. A BLM group pulled that stunt on the Bay Bridge yesterday. They used chains.

      The behavior is unacceptable, certainly not law-abiding and should be dealt with harshly.

      I would starve out the wildlife take over and laugh while doing it. A blockade should end that fairly shortly.

      I am not suggesting a shoot-out but, if you go in armed, they shouldn’t be surprised if that’s how it ends up. Would I cry if it happened? Nope.

  15. ed myers

    This is the danger of interpreting the 2A and gun ownership as a counterbalance to government overreach….a devolution into lawlessness and rule by the strongest thug instead of rule by law. It is tempting to wait for a big snow storm that limits the occupiers movements and bring in a spectre gun ship to wipe them all out. But that would be wrong.

    When people engage in civil disobedience they need to be prepared for a lawful response. Trespassing is a minor crime and the fine is normally nominal. Use of a gun in the commission of a crime, however, usually escalates a misdemeanor into a felony. These guys should have left the guns at home if they wanted to treated like Occupy Cowboys instead of terrorists. It is the use of guns that require they get jail time for this antic even if it ends peacefully.

  16. Steve Thomas

    nateX :
    One big difference with the Occupy Movement was that Occupy was a NONviolent movement. These terrorists are armed and dangerous. An unarmed occupation is a demonstration. An armed occupation is an act of terrorism.

    It’s not “terrorism” to go about armed. Until such time as the individuals use said arms in an unlawful manner, they are just exercising a few rights that happen to be enumerated in the Constitution. Who is being threatened or terrorized?

    So I guess BLM storming a college library, pushing around student’s whose only “crime” is being Caucasian, hurling obscenities and racial epithets…that doesn’t fit you notion of terrorism?

    1. I would probably brand it terrorism. What is the intent? To bully on steroids. Isn’t that what terrorism is?

  17. nateX

    Any large scale gathering of people will have a few bad apples and there is a very long history of the FBI sending in troublemakers to disrupt the Civil Rights movement. Look up COINTELPRO.

    But you have to have a very good imagination to think that Occupy was anything but a nonviolent movement. What percentage of the people in Occupy were armed? Maybe 1%? The few attacks that occurred low level street crimes that happen anytime you have thousands of people in one place. It’s like saying a football game is violent because a fight broke out in the stands.

    Look at what happened when the police raided Occupy? Nothing.

    The terrorists in Oregon are armed and they haven’t turned violent (yet!) because they are getting what they want. What happens when the government tries to kick them out? I bet these terrorists won’t go as peacefully as Occupy did.

    1. You make some valid points.

  18. nateX

    Steve Thomas :
    So I guess BLM storming a college library, pushing around student’s whose only “crime” is being Caucasian, hurling obscenities and racial epithets…that doesn’t fit you notion of terrorism?

    A group of unarmed demonstrators pushing somebody around and cursing isn’t terrorism.

    Seizing government facilities under arms is. I can think of another word that starts with T that is probably a better fit, but I don’t think the RW’ers here could handle hearing that.

    1. Now I am curious….

      I am not sure I agree with you about terrorism, Nate. I can think of situations that don’t involve guns but the behavior is to cause terror. I certainly consider the KKK to be a terrorist organization, at least if they are out and about.

  19. middleman

    Both generations of Bundy ‘s are nothing but welfare queens. They want free stuff- in their case free use of taxpayer property without compensation. Grazing fees on public lands are a fraction of private land costs, but old man Bundy hasn’t paid for over 20 years. The current protest involves destruction of public property to cover evidence of poaching by the Hammonds. Again, free stuff.

    These guys are idiots playing soldier. If they got what they wanted and the lands reverted to private ownership, they couldn’t afford to graze there!

    1. Not Bundy but Lavoy Finicum keeps foster children for about $120k a year. The state has pulled those children.

      Rent a kid must pay a lot these days.

  20. Steve Thomas

    nateX :

    Steve Thomas :
    So I guess BLM storming a college library, pushing around student’s whose only “crime” is being Caucasian, hurling obscenities and racial epithets…that doesn’t fit you notion of terrorism?

    A group of unarmed demonstrators pushing somebody around and cursing isn’t terrorism.

    Bring it on, Nate. I’ve been here since the beginning, and have likely had worse thrown my way.
    Seizing government facilities under arms is. I can think of another word that starts with T that is probably a better fit, but I don’t think the RW’ers here could handle hearing that.

    1. I am just curious. This is an adult blog.

  21. nateX

    @Moon-howler
    The KKK has a long history of violence going back over 100 years. Their agenda is illegal and unconstitutional. Even a nonviolent demonstration by the KKK is an act of terrorism because it is by a terrorist organization. If a shoving match breaks out at Klan demonstration it could easily escalate into real violence.

    Occupy and BLM do not have a history of violence. Rather the reverse. Both are nonviolent movements. If somebody gets shoved at a BLM action, it is not terrorism. BLM wants the government to follow the constitution and stop the extra-legal killing of black people. How can anyone claim that trying to make the government obey its own laws is terrorism? Of course they said the same kinds of things about MLK and the Civil Rights movement. Just back then ‘terrorism’ was ‘communism’.

    As for the RW’ers in Oregon. They are an armed militia that has seized a government building and are refusing to obey lawful orders to leave. That sounds a lot like treason to me. (My other T word)

    Let me be clear: I am not saying the RW’ers here are committing treason. They are not. I am saying the guys that took over the wildlife refuge in Oregon are committing treason. Again to be clear: Posting on a blog: Not treason. Seizing a federal building under arms: treason.

    (Not that this will matter. I’m sure I’ll be told to ‘FOAD’ by somebody again.)

    1. I did ask. I was searching for the T word.

      If the KKK is meeting about paying their rent or something like that, I don’t see terrorism. Parading around in robes…absolutely.

      I have seen some video of BLM that I feel comes mighty close to my definition of terrorism. (shutting down traffic on a bridge and chaining ones self to said bridge) I will say the same about Green Peace and other groups I sometimes support. BLM needs to find a different delivery system before they get my support. I believe storming a stage and snatching people’s mics is getting sort of iffy too.

      While we are at it, their purpose is to terrorize politicians into bending to their will. I have a serious problem with that.

      I consider myself a fairly liberal person. I didn’t tell anyone to FOAD although I am quite capable of doing so. BLM really isn’t well supported among liberals.

      Not to sound like Steve Jobs but…one more thing…if you are on a college campus, regardless of your race, you are part of a group of people who really can’t complain about being underclass, even if you are working daily in the school cafeteria. I have a problem with anyone who attempts to do the poor me who is on a campus unless it is about college loans. Then you can poor me.

    2. Everything was communism back then.

      FYI

  22. nateX

    @Moon-howler
    Never said you told me or anyone else to FOAD. I just said ‘somebody’ might say it. Could be anybody, but it seems to be the catchphrase of somebody around here.

    I get that some people don’t like some of the BLM tactics but they are born out of the urgency of the problem. Student loans aren’t a life and death issue. Tax rates aren’t a life and death issue. State funded extra-legal killing of black people is a life and death issue. A big part of BLM is that we are going to be in peoples faces about this until police are held accountable when they kill innocent people. If that messes up somebody’s commute, well I’m sure Samaria Rice would take a bad morning commute if she could have her son back.

    I don’t think its fair to claim a nonviolent movement aimed at providing equal protection for all could be anything like a ‘terrorist’ group. The aims and methods both matter. Some of the tactics of BLM aren’t to your liking, but they are nonviolent and the same kind of thing that happened back in the 60s. There were bus strikes and sit-ins back then. It wasn’t terrorism then, and BLM isn’t terrorism now. They might be disruptive but they are nonviolent.

    If we thought we could end these attacks by sending letters to Congress or showing up at town hall meetings, then that’s what we’d do. But the reality is that white America has to be woken up from its complency every now and then before they’ll do something. So we have to make some noise. There weren’t any riots or big demonstrations after Rampart and nothing happened. Hell, Rampart barely made the white news outside of LA.

    If you don’t like BLMs methods, find another way to help end these attacks on black people. I’ve been to BLM actions because it’s the only way we’ve been able to get any attention to the problem. Want me to stop? Show me a better way to fix the problem!

    As for class and race, there’s a lot to the “at least I ain’t a …” idea. The poorest white person still has some advantages over a successful, well educated black person. Remember when the police arrested Skip Gates, a Harvard professor for the crime of breaking into his own house (while black). If you think race didn’t have anything to do with that, then you just don’t get it.

    My age doesn’t matter. My education doesn’t matter. What I wear doesn’t matter. What matters is that if I get stopped by the police, no matter how polite I am and ‘Yes sir, no sir’ to everything, I am far more likely to end up dead than if my skin was white. That’s a fact that I have to live with and most of you don’t. And BLM is the only group that seems to be doing anything about that.

    1. I am going to disagree with you big time. In the first place, age, race and gender do matter. If race doesn’t matter, you just blew your entire argument.

      Secondly, your age or age range, more importantly is critical. If I know that, it tells me a whole bunch about your experiences in life. That’s where we start looking for common ground. Without common ground, everything is a stand off.

      Your education matters also. What you wear, to some degree, does matter.

      What do think every white (and probably hispanic) parent tells their teenage son? Put your hands where the officer can see them. Make no sudden moves. Yes, sir, no sir….yada yada yada. We tell our teenage sons that so they will live. Teenagers are impulse, do stupid things, and cops know this. Is it worse for black kids? Maybe. Depends on location.

      Yes, I remember Skip Gates. Bad mistake. You think it was because he was black? Maybe. Maybe not. How do you prove a negative? Seriously, white people have bad encounters with cops also. Try being a woman out after 11 pm, especially on a weekend, if you want want to encounter some serious profiling.

      College kids get profiled in general also. How about the girls who got in big trouble at UVA for buying club soda for some charity event? The girl did exactly what she had been told to do if a strange man tried to detain her. She tried to drive away.

      Bad things happen to people. You (and others) act like you own the victim farm. You don’t.

      Now you really aren’t going to like this next comment but it needs to be said. The black on black crime needs to stop or significantly reduce if black youths are going to be out of the hot seat. If experience tells you x, y, z and you are a cop…you are going to rely on that body of knowledge. Make sure x, y, z isn’t happening.

      Yes, there are bad cops. Most are good people. Yes, there are bad military people. Most are good people. I would target higher pay for public safety so that areas can select the most highly qualified candidates. That’s what’s really going to make a difference.

      Lastly, don’t under-estimate the victimization of poor whites. I don’t think theirs is a happy lot either.

      I am afraid I can’t take you as seriously as you would like if you are going to play games about your demographics. I am willing to bet you that I have certainly seen more racism in my lifetime than you have seen in yours.

  23. Steve Thomas

    @nateX
    No history of violence? Who the hell rioted and burned Furgeson and Baltimore? Wasn’t the Klan.

  24. Steve Thomas

    @nateX
    Treason? You’d be better off arguing sedition. You’d still be wrong, but by a smaller degree.

  25. Cargosquid

    @nateX
    That would be me. I use it when it is appropriate.

    As long as you don’t insult me….or us…. I’ll be civil. If you don’t act like a troll…we can discuss all sorts of things.

  26. nateX

    @Moon-howler
    I don’t think I got my point across. Yes, age, class, sex, gender identity matter. But they are almost always trumped by race. That doesn’t mean women or gays don’t face challenges, but no group has faced the prolonged, systemic discrimination that blacks have faced in America. Yes, there are poor white people that have a hard time. But their black neighbor has it even worse. That’s what I mean when I said that race matters.

    The UVA girl is lucky she is white. If it were a black gal, she’d most likely be dead. Seriously. I really think that, and most black people would agree with me. Standing up to the police even when they are wrong is just not something you can even think about if you are black and want to live. Look at Sandra Bland. Pulled over for changing lanes. Didn’t obey an illegal request to put out her cigarette and now she is dead. The cops were wrong to harrass the UVA gal, but she is still alive. I’m more concerned about Sandra Bland being dead than the UVA girl having a bad afternoon.

    I brought up Skip Gates because he is the poster child for doing everything right. Well educated, well dressed, well spoken, friend of the President even. But he still was arrested inside his own home. If you think that his race had nothing to do with that, then you really don’t get it. How many white professors have ever been arrested for breaking into their own home? In a way Skip Gates was ‘lucky’. Because he was well spoken and educated, he was only arrested. Suppose Dr. Gates had been wearing a hoodie and got just a little worked up over being wrongly arrested in his own home. He’d be dead.

    You aren’t going to want to hear this part: So how exactly are we supposed to reduce ‘black on black’ crime when a large part of the community (rightly) sees the police as dangerous. I can (and have) avoided areas that were part of gang turf wars. But I can’t avoid a racist cop who kills me because I’m black. If the cop decides to stop me, I have very little control over how he escalates the situation.

    If you want to do something about ‘black on black’ crime, fight for the reforms BLM wants, like community based policing and independent reviews of police shootings. If there are real reforms in policing eventually the police can rebuild trust in the communities and we can do something about ‘black on black’ crime. But right now, the police are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    I think the majority of police are not racist. (Surprised?) But the majority of police do protect the bad cops that are. Which means they are part of the problem, even if that “good” cop didn’t pull the trigger himself. There have to be fundimental changes in how police operate and major changes to hold police accountable. Do that, and then we can have a conversation about ‘black on black’ crime. Until then, it’s just concern trolling, like how the Forced Birthers care so much aborting little black babies. Not enough to provide decent pre-natal care, but enough to want to tell black women what they can or can’t do with their own bodies.

    1. Don’t get me started on using abortion in the Forced Birther argument. Is that what they are called?

      My issue with black lives matter is the delivery system. That is what needs to improve. I simply can’t get past the behaviors of many of the members.

      I will say this. Different groups have had different problems. Over all, I will say that blacks have probably had it the worst. But…remember that legally, black men could vote some 75 years before women of any color. There has also been a black president. Latino rights are sketchy also. At least it is considered politically incorrect to use pejorative terms about blacks. Not so about the Latino community. “Anchor babies,” “Illegals,” “Mexicans” (regardless of where one’s country of origin is) are some of the more polite terms we hear about Latinos. Good Hell, what if a presidential candidate said that blacks were all rapists!!!!

      American Indians were beaten down to the point that it makes me want to cry. Every been on an Indian reservation? The level of poverty is simply undesirable. That is generational poverty from which there seems to be no escape.

      Dr. Gates–if it were me, I would be glad to know someone was watching out for me. In fact, I have had a similar incident. I thought that was just one universal mistake at the time, including what the president said. I don’t remember the details.

      Moderation–your comments go to moderation automatically until I get to know you better. It isn’t personal. I do that with people who have said controversial things–until I determine that I am not going to have flame wars. I wish you and Cargo just wouldn’t talk to each other.

  27. nateX

    @Cargosquid
    I’m not going to bother writing what I think about you since it would never get out of moderation. So to be clear, your terms for civil discussion are:

    I don’t say anything you perceive as an insult (which apparently includes discussing the tea party)
    I don’t say anything you perceive as an insult to anybody else here
    I don’t act like what you consider to be a troll

    In exchange you will:
    Stop calling me a POS
    Stop wishing me dead

    And I’m the one stuck in moderation, huh?

  28. Wolve

    Cargosquid :
    @nateX
    That would be me. I use it when it is appropriate.
    As long as you don’t insult me….or us…. I’ll be civil. If you don’t act like a troll…we can discuss all sorts of things.
    </blockquote

    Cargo — Did you launch a "FOAD" against nateX, and I missed it? Can you point it out to me — thread and post number?

    1. I have asked everyone to behave themselves. Yes he did.

      Just because we might not all agree with what Nate is saying doesn’t mean he is a troll. He is expressing himself well and in recent exchanges, he has been polite.

      I have probably said some things he probably doesn’t want to hear. I have been fairly blunt in my feelings but I have been polite, I hope. I don’t feel any hostility. Nate and I are having a discussion. All is good.

  29. Wolve

    @Moon-howler

    Sorry, Moon, but I don’t see anything on any of the current threads which reaches the level of a “FOAD” aimed by Cargo at nateX —–unless you used the editorial eraser to remove something I missed. You and I have had better head-to-head clashes than I see here at the moment. You sure you aren’t confusing nateX with my homeboy Ed?

    1. It’s there. Cargo admits it. I just don’t remember where. I can find it for you later if you want. I am sure I will have lots of time on my hands, as long as we are being blizzarded.

      Are you closer to Leesburg or Sterling area?

  30. nateX

    @Wolve
    The fireworks were in The World of Trump thread. I said that Teabaggers were racist because they support policies that are racially discriminatory and the Tea Party is the most extreme wing of the GOP. You may not agree, but that is an opinion held by millions of people, black and white. I never said anything about Cargosquid personally. Only that people who are a member of a group led by white surpremists (and I provided links to prominent Tea Party officials with ties to a number of hate groups) and support racially discriminatory laws, you are a racist.

    Again, you may not agree with my opinion, but that is not an insult, certainly not one directed at anyone. Many (probably most) people here disagree. Some ignored me. Some challenged me. Only Cargosquid felt the need to openly fantasize about my death. From The World of Trump thread:

    Cargosquid
    January 5th, 2016 at 12:48 | #2 Reply | Quote
    @nateX
    Let me tell you, from the depths of my heart.
    After calling people like me a racist just because I support the Tea Party, you can fuck off.
    Since I can’t tell you to take your bigoted ass anywhere, since I don’t run this blog, please accept my sincerest disdain.
    Do the letters FOAD mean anything to you? In a fire would be best.
    Thanks.

    Or:

    Cargosquid
    January 5th, 2016 at 15:01 | #16 Reply | Quote
    (Deleted Cargosquid’s quoting of me to save space.)

    Oh look….someone is trying to rehash lies from 2009. No..its is no coincidence that the Tea Party showed up as very progressive, spendthrift that promised to “transform America” got elected and then rammed through an unconstitutional POS called Obamacare.
    After the assertion that the Tea Party equals the KKK….well…on this site, you need to prove it.
    Shootings by police officers or otherwise don’t usually get comments from the Tea Party…so your point is irrelevant.
    You are merely an race baiting bigot that is not worth our time. As I said in my first reply. Fuck off and die. In a fire. Bigot.

    ——————–
    Looks like it’s going to be quite a storm. Everybody be safe. Including Cargosquid.

    1. Thank you Nate, for refreshing everyone’s memory…(I guess)

      I do think your comments were insulting. Discussions of gender and race often are.

      My theory is, everyone is racist in some way. Some people are more racist than others. I think it all boils down to what is in someone’s heart AND how they act on it.

  31. Steve Thomas

    @nateX
    @NateX comment #43

    I think you are starting to get the culture here. This particular comment was assertive yet respectful. I may not agree with all of the points you made, it seems you understand that this is indeed a community with a diversity of thought. This is what makes this blog successful, when others have failed. Those that failed, did so because the owners and commentators wouldn’t tolerate any challenge to their views. They became echo chambers.

    I am interested in engaging in debates with those of differing opinions and experiences. You don’t become a better chess-player until you challenge better players. You don’t become a better boxer, until you face better fighters.

    1. People here also don’t always fit into molds or pigeon-holes. I am all over the place politically. I actually don’t care what most groups think. If someone presents another point of view…I might learn something or see another side to something I hadn’t thought of.

      I actually like the diversity here. It reinforces my faith in mankind (and womenkind).

  32. Steve Thomas

    @nateX
    “I said that Teabaggers were racist because they support policies that are racially discriminatory and the Tea Party is the most extreme wing of the GOP. You may not agree, but that is an opinion held by millions of people, black and white. I never said anything about Cargosquid personally. Only that people who are a member of a group led by white surpremists (and I provided links to prominent Tea Party officials with ties to a number of hate groups) and support racially discriminatory laws, you are a racist.
    Again, you may not agree with my opinion, but that is not an insult, certainly not one directed at anyone. ”

    Calling someone a “Teabagger” is an insult. Go look up the term in the urban dictionary. It’s the same as calling someone a “Fag”…which is an insult. How about “Tea Party Member” or “Tea Partier”?

    Racist…this word is thrown about with such abandon, that it has become trite. That is a shame, because the word has been so cheapened, it can no longer be used when trying to describe real racists, like those in the Klan or Neo-Nazi’s.

    Where your arguments become muddled is when you try to throw everything in the same pot, expecting everyone to try the stew. When you argue “right-wing teabagger racists” and then cite some radical black liberation organization getting bombed by police, after firing at law-enforcement with automatic weapons as some double-standard, you are serving some pretty tin gruel, made thinner by the fact that the assault was ordered by a Democrat Mayor. When you hold up John Africa and his organization as victims, while at the same time calling the Bundy’s Right-wing terrorists…I gotta tell you, I don’t give your arguments much credibility.

    1. There is real racism in America. However, when the term ‘racist” is thrown around willy-nilly, it often obfuscates real problems. I keep telling my grandkids this.

      They think you are a racist if you mention someone’s race. So young. So much to learn,

  33. Ed Myers

    In the SOTU thread Cargo used his shinny new FOAD epithet on me as well. Is he a 2A advocate because he needs a gun to save himself from the consequences of his inflammatory rhetoric?

    1. I think he will be kinder in the future.

  34. Wolve

    Well, color me FOAD. I am getting too old for this kind of stuff. I even had to look up the meaning of FOAD in the Urban Dictionary. You kiddies have got to stop speaking in made-up acronyms.

    1. Wolve, I didn’t know either. I just sort of figured it out. It wasn’t part of my vocabulary either and I am not known for having a nun mouth.

      I thought I was all up on things with STFU and ESTBAD.

  35. Cargosquid

    @nateX
    You insulted me and the Tea Party by making a blanket statement that the Tea Party people were racists. When you lie right off the bat……before you know who you are talking to….you get a vehement response.

    That may be their opinion but you used it as a fact. I can’t help it if those people that think the Tea Party is racist had decided to believe propaganda.

    As for calling me a Tea Bagger….go for it. Just remember…that means that their opponents will be the tea baggEE.

    I’m sick and tired of bigots like you hiding behind your race and calling people you disagree with racists. So..yes….when you arrive out of the blue and starting lying and start insulting people….. you get it back.

    You seem to be learning how to be polite. Again, don’t insult me or mine, and you don’t get it back.

  36. Wolve

    Just heard on radio news tonight that the Oregon ringleaders have been arrested by the FBI in a confrontation during a traffic stop. One person reportedly killed.

    1. I am trying to find more about it now. We went to Japanese Steak House in Gainesville tonight to celebrate surviving Snowzilla and to let Dog-Breath (did you see my note to you) know how much we appreciate all the work he did keeping us dug out. Anyway, I came home and crashed into a food induced comas. Just coming back to life.

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