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Washingtonpost.com:

Gun owners are pressuring the National Rifle Association to boot longtime board member Ted Nugent from the organization’s leadership ranks after the rock star’s social media outburst that depicted prominent American Jews as the men and women “really behind gun control.”

Nugent, an outspoken Second Amendment advocate, posted a photo on Facebook earlier this week calling Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), “Jew York City Mayor Mikey Bloomberg,” former senator Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, among many others, “punks” who would “deny us the basic human right to self defense and to keep and bear arms while many of them have paid hired armed security.”

The Israeli flag appears over or next to each of the 12 faces in the photo, which is the same one that has been shared many times in white suprema­cist cir­cles, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

The post prompted applause from anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi groups.

 

Nugent later posted a photo of Nazis rounding up Jews during the Holocaust and described gun-control advocates as “soulless sheep to slaughter.”

Nugent’s Facebook posts triggered cries of anti-Semitism and prompted gun-control activists and Second Amendment advocates alike to call for his removal from NRA’s board of directors; even several leading voices in the gun rights movement say they can no longer justify his “simple-minded” remarks.

The “Cat Scratch Fever” singer has served on the NRA board since 1995.

Good for the gun rights advocates for calling out Nugent for his perpetual bad behavior.  There is nothing like an advocate for your position poisoning the well, so to speak.  Nugent’s behavior has conflated the issue of gun control and anti-semitism,  an idea that only serves to hurt the message of many gun owners.  For this reason, he will in all probability be removed as a spokesman for the NRA.

Good riddance.  He is a nasty spokesman for the organization.

Nugget just couldn’t help himself from digging the hole deeper.

Ted Nugent

Know these punks. They hate freedom, they hate good over evil, they would deny us the basic human right to self defense & to KEEP & BEAR ARMS while many of them have tax paid hired ARMED security! Know them well. Tell every1 you know how evil they are. Let us raise maximum hell to shut them down!

 Nugget kept it up on Facebook, posting a picture of Jews being herded by Nazis, then defending his own actions. He made things worse for himself.  I think he is pretty much done.

Further reading:  Washington Post

69 thoughts on “Gun owners urge NRA to scratch “Cat Scratch Fever” Nugent for anti-semitic remarks

  1. Starryflights

    I sure hope he is done. The NRA would do well to cut ties with that filthy animal

  2. Ed Myers

    Is this dementia setting in?

  3. Lyssa

    So will the same NRA that defends to the death broad interpretations of the second amendment not do the same with the first?

    1. Geez, I hope not. I mean we KNOW the second is far more important than the first.

  4. Lyssa

    I think they’re in an amendment pickle.

  5. Steve Thomas

    I’m laughing here, reading this. The board of the NRA is elected by the voting members. I happen to be one. If you think the majority of members are going to toss Ted over this, you are kidding yourselves

    1. He really should be tossed just for being a repugnant human being.

      Question for you…why don’t voting members feel he hurts their cause?

  6. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :
    He really should be tossed just for being a repugnant human being.
    Question for you…why don’t voting members feel he hurts their cause?

    It might have something to do with the constant demonizing of the NRA by the very people pictured in the meme re-posted by Nugent. When you demonize the NRA, you are demonizing the members. Having someone on their side who throws a little back the other way, appeals to a large segment of the membership.

    1. Accepted. However, there are a whole bunch of people out there who are not die hard NRA members or anti gun nuts. Where would you prefer those people chose to hang their hats? With NRA or with anti gun nuts?

      People like old Cat-scratch make me opt for the anti gun nuts. He abolishes the concept of balance. Now lets take someone like Tom Selleck. He doesn’t bring out violent revulsion in people. He is well-spoken and professional. He isn’t a sound bite.

      When I was embedded in NARAL we always knew the hot-heads and radicals and tried to avoid them like the plague. They certainly weren’t chosen as our spokespersons.

      What will happen if you turn enough people off, even gun owners, is …well, you will eventually lose your cause. It is simply a game of loud now. Eventually it will turn into a math problem.

      I would be trying to project a more positive image. All gun owners are not NRA members. Are all NRA members gun owners?

  7. Lyssa

    I’m laughing too!

  8. Scout

    @ Steve: I hope you’re not serious. How could any decent American (or any decent human, for that matter) have any truck with someone like Ted Nugent? How could it possibly be an excuse that NRA takes a lot of criticism for its positions? Nugent is a caricature of what the left thinks gun mania is all about. I would think the NRA and its members would want to be as far away from him as possible.

  9. Starry flights

    On second thought, let that filthy, cowardly, draft-dodging animal stay on the NRA board. He is their perfect representative

    1. If they want a pig to represent them, have at it. I believe the theme of the article was that the gun owner members wanted him gone. I guess their opinion doesn’t count?

      I know a lot of NRA members and most of them are decent people. I would kick Nugent to the curb. He just isn’t a nice person.

      I think you should always want excellent people coming out and speaking for your organization.
      Board members who shoot off at the mouth, regardless of organization, usually don’t help that institution or organization.

  10. Steve Thomas

    @Scout
    Scout,

    I’ve known you to be a pretty sharp observer of issues, but here I think you are missing something. There is a huge difference between “criticism” and being demonized. Those on the meme happen to be some of the worst offenders. Nugent didn’t produce the meme. I’ve been off facebook for two years, and remember seeing it when I still had an account.

    Nugent isn’t a “spokesperson” for the NRA, but as a board member he does represent the organization on some level. As moon pointed out, there are other more articulate, less flamboyant celebrity members as well.

    Nugent is an outrageous rock n roller with a few hunting related shows. He appeals to a certain segment of gun owners and NRA members. I am not a member of that segment, but it is large enough to keep him on the board. Donald Trump says outrageous things, and is a flamboyant presidential candidate, who is appealing to a large and growing segment of conservatives and independent voters.. I am not a member of this segment either, but it just may be large enough for him to become the nominee. Same dynamic for Sanders.

    My point is, times they are a changing, and I am watching with the eye of a student of history.

    I’ve already pledged to 4 NRA board candidates, who contacted me, and asked for my vote.. Only 1 is a celebrity, and it ain’t Ted.

    1. @teve, what does your last paragraph mean?

      Nugent is more of less a self-appointed spokesperson. He seriously harms the organization, if you ask me. (which I know you didn’t)

      The NRA does some good things we never hear about. They have terrific gun safety programs. They work well with youth programs with regard to marksmanship and gun safety. They have an excellent, well-run range with education, help, training, etc. Instead of hearing about these good things, you either hear LaPierre sound-biting or Nugent running off at the mouth if you are a member of the general public.

      I am highly critical of the organization because of people like those 2. I grew up with the NRA magazine as part of the library. Then the tone changed. I just think things could be more positive.

  11. Steve Thomas

    Starry flights :
    On second thought, let that filthy, cowardly, draft-dodging animal stay on the NRA board. He is their perfect representative

    “Perfect Representative”. Starry, you made my case. You just demonized the entire NRA, and its members, including me. This is what I was laughing about originally. You advising that the NRA would do well to cut ties with Nugent, as if you care one whit about the organization, or have the tiniest clue about its structure and organization, not to mention the least bit of passion concerning the protection of the 2nd Amendment. You deserve your own meme.

  12. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :
    If they want a pig to represent them, have at it. I believe the theme of the article was that the gun owner members wanted him gone. I guess their opinion doesn’t count.

    Moon,

    There’s an election. Some do want him gone. Last year, some wanted Norquist gone. If if enough want it so, it will be so.

    So if the Dems nominate Sanders, does that make you a raging socialist? If the GOP nominates Trump, does that make me a misogynist?

    Not that either of our opinions don’t count…they just don’t count enough to overturn an election.

    I would suspect there is a line already established that if crossed is grounds for removal. Maybe Nugent will cross it someday.

  13. Scout

    I guess I don’t know what “demonization” means anymore, Steve (your #15 and #9). You seem to be saying that it’s OK to have Nugent on the board of an organization if the organization has been “demonized”. Why would that be? If I catch the drift of what “demonization” is in modern times, I can think of a lot of other causes and people who get “demonized” (we live in an hysterical age, I’m afraid), but they don’t get a pass to surround themselves with scurrilous, ignorant, hate-mongerers. AT what level of criticism for policy positions does a Nugent get to be OK? If the current president (who clearly has been “demonized” quite freely) wanted to appoint some vile, vocal anti-Semite to the Cabinet, would you be good with that, given the Demonization Excuse? Would it improve Obama’s image with his critics were he to do so? I doubt it.

    Moon and some of the rest of us here are making the point that an organization concerned about its image and its persuasive power with the general population, no matter how severely criticized, would not rationally want to be associated with people who provide good cause for that criticism to increase. It seems to add another brick to the demonization load, rather than to relieve that burden, if it indeed exists.

    1. It’s people like Nugent who bring on a lot of that demonization.

      Scout, you make an excellent point about Obama and the Cabinet.

  14. Cargosquid

    @Lyssa
    I’m a firm supporter of the 1st and 2nd amendments.

    Penalizing Nugent for saying stupid things, and then being stupid enough to double down on it is not abridging his 2nd amendment rights. He can say whatever he pleases. But the NRA has the right to cut ties with him so that he is not a representative of the NRA.

    @Moon-howler
    You are right about image. And ol’ Ted, for the most part, was merely a loud obnoxious guy that pushed the boundaries. Now, he’s crossed the line. Your example of NARAL is timely, since, they recently jumped the shark too, by condemning the “humanization” of fetuses in the recent Doritos’s commercial that showed a baby inside a pregnant woman reacting to Doritos.

    Time for Ted to go.

    1. I don’t know what NARAL has done or said. Obviously fetuses can’t eat Doritos while in utero.

      I would have to see it before I pronounced Moon-judgement. Link, for favor.

    1. Well, its a pretty ridiculous commercial and it sure doesn’t make me want to buy Doritos.

      What exactly did NARAL say about it? I actually don’t see that it has anything to do with that organization.

      It obviously was a spoof since real fetuses don’t act like that.

  15. Scout

    Cargo – could you link to the NARAL statement? That sounds pretty goofy. I agree if they took exception to a commercial about a snack food, they’ve lost their way. At least they didn’t claim that the Doritos people were Israelis and/or Jews or whatever Nugent’s point was about gun regulation advocates.

  16. Steve Thomas

    @Scout
    Scout,

    Perhaps if you were as passionate about the 2nd Amendment as I, you might understand how those pictured in the meme have spent years demonizing the NRA and its members. Most recently, there were calls from this crowd to have the NRA officially declared a terrorist organization. After every mass shooting, the NRA is blamed for the incident…and so are its members.

    Look, I don’t think Ted is the best or brightest spokesman, and I think his days are numbered as his efficacy wanes. There’s a whole new generation being promoted..referred to within the 2A community as “Gun Culture 2.0”. Names like Colion Noir and N. Stephanie Spiker. These names may not mean anything to you, but they are the emerging face of the NRA, as more and more minorities and women join the organization…and they happen to have my vote this year.

    1. Steve, I honestly think that nowadays, the NRA begs to be demonized. Wayne LaPierre could always be counted on to say something incredibly stupid after a shooting tragedy. There is little effort to sell. The effort all seems to go out of its way to alienate.

      Like I said, the NRA magazine was considered good reading in the home where I grew up. Let me say, my parents were both college educated so I am not speaking of outhouse reading material. The organization was respected.

      Somewhere between the house of Walt and Betty and today….things have changed. I am one of those who cannot abide many of the politics of that organization. Maybe I am a demonizer.

  17. Scout

    So . . . .

    Is the correct response to say that being Jewish or Israeli is a common element of opposition to NRA positions? Lose the “demonize” theme. It isn’t helping. It doesn’t excuse neo-Nazi behavior.

    Look, Steve. I am not without respect for you and some of your observations here. But you do yourself no service to even try to defend Nugent. There are no extenuating circumstances that justify the advert that Moon posted up. You can respectably assert your 2A positions without having to carry around human garbage on your back (or on the NRA’s back, to make it less about you) like Nugent. There is absolutely no extenuating circumstance for this.

  18. Steve Thomas

    @Moon-howler
    “@teve, what does your last paragraph mean?”

    I am a Life-Member, which is a voting member. so I am on a list. There’s a whole bunch of folks running for the board. Some are celebrities, or well-known politicos. Others are grass-roots activists, and some are just regular folks. Like any election, these people have a strategy to garner votes. 4 people have contacted me directly, spoke with me or corresponded with me via email. They explained their background, their positions, and asked me for one of my votes (you can cast as many votes as there are open seats). I will vote for all 4.

    1. That is interesting to know. Thank you for explaining it.

  19. Steve Thomas

    @Scout
    Scout,

    I am NOT defending Nugent. I disagree 100% with making some Israeli connection to those listed. Beyond a connection to the majority religion in that country, none are Israeli citizens. Yes, I see the irony that those ardent anti-gunners happen to be Jewish, and German Jews were disarmed prior to the start of heavy persecution, the meme does a poor job of communicating this, and clearly pissed off those Jews who are pro-gun. I see those listed as anti-gun as acting from a left-wing political ideology…not from a religious perspective. That would be like saying Jewish politicians are communists, because many Jews were communists during the Bolshevik Revolution (an argument Hitler made)…it is a false narrative.

    As to the meme…Nugent didn’t create it. He distributed it, via social media. He doubled-down on it, so the consequences are his.

    My point in joining this thread was to provide some insight into how the NRA functions…insight that is clearly lacking from most who are commenting. It was most certainly NOT defending Nugent. However, like any organization with an elected board, the NRA can’t just “cut ties” or “toss” Nugent without some due process. He can be voted out during the next election, or removed for gross misconduct by a vote of the board, after an investigation. Whether or not this rises to the level required, I cannot say.

    “Lose the “demonize” theme. It isn’t helping. It doesn’t excuse neo-Nazi behavior.”

    I am going to disregard this comment. First, YOU don’t tell ME what to do…ever. I respect you, but don’t think that give you license to tell me what I should find offensive. I have to listen to the lies and insults from the likes of those on the meme…directed at me, my wife, and others, simply because we choose to exercise an enumerated right, under the US constitution. I won’t excuse neo-nazi behavior, and I am solidly pro-Israel, as previous threads on this blog will attest, nor am I trying excuse Nugent’s choices. Savvy?

    1. When you distribute a meme, you own it. We have been trying to explain that to a friend who keeps trying to weasel out of some of her FB posts…by saying she didn’t really do it…she found it.

      I hope Nugent is owning it.

  20. Steve Thomas

    Moon-howler :
    Steve, I honestly think that nowadays, the NRA begs to be demonized. Wayne LaPierre could always be counted on to say something incredibly stupid after a shooting tragedy. There is little effort to sell. The effort all seems to go out of its way to alienate.
    Like I said, the NRA magazine was considered good reading in the home where I grew up. Let me say, my parents were both college educated so I am not speaking of outhouse reading material. The organization was respected.
    Somewhere between the house of Walt and Betty and today….things have changed. I am one of those who cannot abide many of the politics of that organization. Maybe I am a demonizer.

    Moon,

    Would you for a second consider that the politics may have changed in response to efforts by the left to enact strict gun-control? Happened during the 1970’s. The organization answers to its members. LaPierre answers to the organization. What you see as “stupid”, we see as standing up for the members. Were that not the case, he’d be gone.

    I happen to like the NRA mag, just the way it is. When’s the last time you read one?

    1. Probably when I moved out of the house of Walt and Betty. I am pretty sure they didn’t like the direction the organization had taken. Bear in mind, they were more the hunting end of it. They raised bird dogs.

      Let’s face it, I am sure members winced when they read some of LaPierre’s remarks. He doesn’t always put the best foot forward. I can’t remember which incident made me groan….Maybe it was Sandy Hook.

  21. Scout

    But you’re saying, repeatedly here, that because you feel that the NRA is “demonized” (whatever that means), we should not expect that every single member will want Nugent to take a hike. Sorry, I don’t get it. There is no rational connection between how put upon you feel about people opposing NRA positions and whether Nugent should be or will be retained as a Board Member at NRA after putting that piece of trash out into the ether.

    When I say, “lose the Demonization theme”, it’s not because I feel I have the right to order you around. It’s because it makes you look silly and I expect more from you than that. In the end, it is, of course, your choice.

  22. Steve Thomas

    @Scout
    Scout,

    Please use that sharp intellect for a moment. The NRA is made up of a wide spectrum of people from around the country. One of these segments is 40-50 year-old white blue-collar guys, who like their beer, rock and roll, and their guns. They watch hunting shows. These are Nugent’s people. These are who put him on the board, and keep voting for him. Me, I tend to vote for the real grass-roots people, men and women. not celebs, although Selleck and Ermy have received my support. I haven’t hunted in years, hardly ever listen to music anymore, and am much more interested in what a board member has done and can do, rather than the talk.

    As far as being demonized, you do not understand the mood of people like me. We’re sick of the lies, and the efforts to restrict our rights, predicated on lies. I might go about expressing it differently from Nugent, but the desire to fight back is just as strong. The gun-culture is done playing defense. Public attitudes have been shifting in our direction for years, and we are past the tipping point. The NRA’s popularity is increasing. First-time gun ownership is increasing. Those carrying for self-defense is increasing…all due in large part to the efforts of the NRA, and like-organizations. And we did it without a lot of “sage advice” from folks who will never understand the issue from our perspective. We don’t need to win everyone over. We just need enough to win…and if you look at the trends since 1990, we are winning.

    1. I also think you are reaching critical mass. Then you will have to start selling rather than trumpeting. I don’t mean that offensively.

      Actually, I am probably one of the people who understands the issue the most, from an academic point of view. First off, you can’t allow yourself to have rights whittled away. (camel’s nose under the tent) Secondly, attempts to curb your efforts turn into a great rallying cry. Right now, the rallying cry attracts new people. At some point….the rhetoric will have to change…for your group and for mine.

      Meanwhile, I do understand where you are coming from, even if I don’t necessarily agree or disagree.

      I would be telling Ted to shut up however.

  23. Scout

    We’re talking about two different things, Steve. You’re talking about why you love the NRA. I’m talking about this piece of vile drek that Nugent disseminated, a communication that makes him a similar piece of vile drek. If there are a lot of NRA members who would cut someone like that slack because he likes killing animals as much as they do, drinks beer and has a penchant for rock-and-roll, NRA ought to be looking cross-eyed at them too. There is simply no excuse for that piece. None. Zero.

  24. Wolve

    Ted Nugent is “vile drek”?!!!!

    And Watching says Wolve is “rude”?

  25. Scout

    Go back and look at the Nugent Facebook post that Moon started this thread with, Wolve. Read it. Once you do, I think your criticism will be that I am being overly delicate in my treatment of Mr. Nugent.

    I am capable of being rude, but my position around the blog world is that it is almost never justified, and that these exchanges of ideas should be about the quality of the ideas, not besmirching the personal qualities of the commenters. After all, most of us don’t know each other personally in any event.

    However, I am not against all rudeness, anger, hostility, etc. I reserve a special personal intolerance for neo-Nazis, anti-Semites (whether directed at Arabs or Jews), and racists. The item in the post that Nugent disseminated is pure Goebbels horseshit. I see no reason to be polite or accommodating to anyone who would transmit it further. They need to be drummed out of civilized society. I chose my term carefully (“drek” is a good Yiddish phrase). I offer no apologies for it in this application.

    If you think Nugent, based on the piece he sent around (Michael Bloomberg is described as the Mayor of “Jew York City” etc.) deserves any civility at all, I’d be interested in hearing why you think that.

  26. Wolve

    Actually, Scout, Wolverine by birth that I may be, this Nugent fellow has no role whatsoever in my own personal universe — not even in conjunction with the NRA, of which I am not a member. Nor does his music enter into my old timer world. Now, if you were to complain about some public statement made by the likes of Garanca, Netrebko, Villazon, Eyvazov, Domingo, Kaufmann, Schrott, or Hvorostoviski, inter alia, I would get interested. Indeed, Netrebko has come under fire of late for making a couple of statements in support of Putin…..But, the heck with it, her voice sends me, especially with “Rusalka” or “Quando m’en vo”……….

    “Jew York City”? Is that worse than “Hymietown”? I think it all deserves to be countered by not drawing further attention to it……and maybe giving another donation to the “On Wings of Eagles” program of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews to support “aliyah” out of the misery of Eastern Ukraine and like places.

  27. Steve Thomas

    Nugent has issued a public apology, acknowledged the realization the meme he re-posted was created by and is infact anti-semetic. Pro-gun Jewish group publicly forgives, and offers Nugent honorary membership. Nugent accepts. Circus is over, according to 2A activists.

    1. I sort of see Nugent as a white Kenye West. He speaks first, for shock value. Some things you can’t clean up.

  28. Scout

    “Jew York City” is not worse than “Hymietown”, Wolve. Nor is it worse than the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or explaining England’s declaration of war in 1939 as being caused by the British government having been taken over by international Jewry. It’s all the same toxic, anti-semitic, neo-Nazi garbage. Why would one justify the other? My question to you was whether there is any reason whatsoever that civilized Americans should react to such stuff and the people who purvey it with politeness and equanimity. I hope your answer will be a hearty Hell No. Your comment #41 suggests otherwise.

    @ Steve – sorry to hear that “2A activists”, regardless of religious affiliation publicly forgive. For what it’s worth (and it is worth a great deal to me) I don’t forgive this kind of stuff or the people who spread it around. It’s too dangerous.

  29. Steve Thomas

    @Scout
    “@ Steve – sorry to hear that “2A activists”, regardless of religious affiliation publicly forgive. For what it’s worth (and it is worth a great deal to me) I don’t forgive this kind of stuff or the people who spread it around. It’s too dangerous.”

    Scout,

    Since this is clearly a raw subject for you, and the last thing I want to do is add insult to injury, Let me say this up-front: I don’t begrudge your outrage, or your unwillingness to forgive, and am neither advocating for or against letting this go. Your choice either way is yours, and I have no issue with how you choose to view Ted Nugent. I was a fan of his music in highschool over 30 years ago(probably still have a copy of “Great Gonzos” on vinyl in a box, somewhere…but no turntable), but that is where my association with Ted Nugent ends.

    I don’t know how “tuned in” you are to the “gun culture”, but I stay tuned in daily. I am simply reporting “the chatter” I am reading and hearing on the gun-culture blogs and websites, podcasts and video channels, etc. This includes guest interviews with leaders from within the Jewish gun-owning community.

    As far as the “gun-culture” goes, I strongly suspect that since you strike me as a deep-thinker, you likely know that granularity exists and there are a multitude of sub-cultures within. Some are hunters or competition shooters. Some are collectors, seeking to preserve history. Some earn a living manufacturing, buying and selling. Some are most interested in the personal-defense aspects… and the list goes on. Both respect and animosity exists between the subcultures, which has fascinated me.

    While I’ve hunted, I am not a “hunter”. I’ve done competitive shooting, but I am not a competitive shooter. While I study and enjoy the historical aspects of firearms (for obvious reasons), my small “collection” is utilitarian in nature…I am not a “collector”. On the rare occasion I’ve sold, it’s been on consignment at my local gun-shop, because I was either dissatisfied with a particular firearm, or was looking to “trade up”. If I have to place myself in a single group, I am decidedly within the “personal defense” subculture…and this greatly influences my views on the 2A, and the various other sub-cultures and “personalities” within the “gun-culture”.

    The point I am trying to make here is I don’t see Nugent as representing my sub-culture. Those I admire, you’ve probably never heard of most. The more recognizable include Alan Gotlieb, Dick Heller, Sean Maloney, Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp, Collins Idehen (aka Colion Noir), N. Stephanie Spiker, Paul G. Markel, Bill Frady, Mark Walters, Bob Owens, and Rob Morse. Of course, R. Lee Ermy is in there too. As a Marine, it is impossible not to love “the Gunny”. Some are “minor celebs” within the gun-culture. Others do the yeoman’s work of protecting and expanding the recognition of our Constitutional right to keep (own and possess) and bear (carry upon one’s person) arms. Philosophically, while I am concerned with infringements upon the type of arms I choose to keep, this is subordinate to the right to bear: I do not believe that the state has the Constitutional power and authority to regulate this, if I have not otherwise, through my own actions, surrendered this right. If the state wants to say: “You can’t carry an AK-variant semi-auto rifle into a post-office,” fine. This, to me, is a discussion regarding the practicality of carrying this type of firearm for self-defense, when out and about in the general public. I do see the state completely disarming me when I step on to the property under control of the US Postal Service as an infringement. Any violence-prevention law that requires the cooperation of those with evil intent, in order to effective, is by it’s nature, ineffective. This is tantamount to arguing “Some people drive drunk or speed on Federal Interstate Highways, while listening to music. This has led to injuries and fatalities. Therefore, no one is permitted to listen to music, while driving on a Federal Interstate.”

    I can’t say whether or not Ted “Kill it and Grill it” Nugent puts this kind of thought into the 2nd Amendment. If he does, he hasn’t articulated it in a manner that resonates with me, within my particular sub-culture, and I personally don’t see him as a true advocate for, or defender of, the 2nd Amendment, anymore than I see someone who says, “I own a gun, and I hunt and shoot skeet. I’ve written books and have a TV show about hunting and skeet-shooting. Therefore I am pro-2nd Amendment”. There are two guitars and a baby-grand piano in my living room. I can strum the strings or tap the keys. This doesn’t make me a musician.

    Perhaps this is why I was neither outraged by, nor inclined to defend Nugent. However, if anti-Semitic statements by Nugent become a pattern of behavior, I will write a letter, drive to Fairfax, and personally present my demand to Wayne LaPierre’s secretary that Nugent be removed from the board, and if that doesn’t work, I’ll approach LaPierre or his representative at the next Gun Rights Policy Conference.

    1. I am going to weigh in on this discussion. I feel somewhat like Scout does, although I will never be as eloquent as he is in expressing his opinion.

      I agree that Nugent does play right into the hands (and minds) of the subset that you mentioned. I suppose I don’t think that they should be accommodated. They are going to join the NRA regardless.

      There is part of me that wants to like and respect the NRA. right now, I can’t, mainly because of the Nugents of the world and his followers. I find them reprehensible. I give someone like Tom Selleck high marks, however.

      Let me also say I am not intellectual about the 2nd amendment. If I am intellectual about any of them, it would be parts of the first and fourteenth. Those are where I keep my swords to fall on.

  30. Steve Thomas

    @MoonHowler

    Fair enough. I reserve my marks for those who actually get things done…like reaching women, minorities, and others new to the “gun culture”. We call this “Gun Culture 2.0”. These are the next generation, and the new face of the NRA, which is changing. One of the reasons these new leaders message resonates so well with an old salt like me, is their focus is self-defense. Their views and messages regarding the 2A, align more closely with mine than Nugent’s ever will, and better reflect the diverse make-up of the gun-culture…and all the folks I mentioned above are ardent proponents of continuing training. Many are professional trainers themselves. Paul Markel’s motto is “You are a beginner once, but you should indeed be a student for life”.

    1. I think those groups are extremely important, especially women. I say that in honor of my mother who was an excellent shot and actually knew a lot about guns. I don’t know how I would categorize her. She liked guns. (She also liked turquoise.) She grew up in another time. She also loved horses and bird dogs. I never knew her to hunt. She thought all snakes should be shot.

      But I digress….the world is not a safe place. I think its important for women to be able to defend themselves. I think its also important for them to enjoy marksmanship and collecting, if that’s what they want to do. I think its important for them to be able to do these things without having to be pretend men to enjoy them.

      I would have higher regard for the NRA if it advanced the causes you mentioned rather than letting the loud, boisterous blow-hards captivate the message. They are the main reason I won’t have anything to do with the organization.

      As I have mentioned before, I totally understand about throwing up the guard on anything that appears to whittle away at rights. Been there, done that. I think with a new generation, a carefully crafted new message can defend rights and at the same time not send the message of “tough shit, more people killed, oh well…” which is the message non enthusiasts are hearing now.

      When I say non-enthusiasts, I don’t mean those actively working against gun rights. I mean neutral types, fence sitters. People like me hear…tough shit from Nugent and LaPierre. All the reasonable people are drowned out.

      (private message sent to Steve at this point)

  31. Steve Thomas

    @MoonHowler
    “I would have higher regard for the NRA if it advanced the causes you mentioned rather than letting the loud, boisterous blow-hards captivate the message. They are the main reason I won’t have anything to do with the organization.”

    While I haven’t heard it expressed in these terms, I can see the strategy is two-fold: Addition thru subtraction, and Addition through Addition. You may not have noticed it yet, but I have.

  32. Scout

    Steve: we are on such different wave lengths here that there really isn’t any communication worth speaking of. I didn’t see the post as being primarily about the NRA. I still don’t. I saw it as being about someone who enjoys some degree of success and celebrity in the United States of America who spouts neo-Nazi propaganda. In my mind, it is every American’s duty to fly in the face of that and to run out of town the ignorant, hateful low-lifes who embrace those ideas. America can’t accommodate that on any level. Now, in this case, it happens that one of this man’s positions is that he is on the Board of the NRA. Of course, assuming the NRA has a goodly number of decent, patriotic American citizens among its members, they should join in the national instinct of running this guy off the property. But if it weren’t the NRA and were instead the Rotary Club or the National Philatelic Society, I’d feel exactly the same way. My awareness of or sense of the gun community has nothing to do with it. So your long comment (#45) doesn’t illuminate anything for me about Mr. Nugent. It tells me more about your interests and enthusiasms. I am pleased that these things interest you, but they are not related to my point that there is no excuse or explanation that can possibly absolve Nugent for propagating that material. Not everything is about guns.

  33. Censored bybvbl

    @Scout

    Amen! There is no excuse whatsoever for decent human beings to tolerate hate speech such as Nugent’s.

    It was the nastiness fomented by HSM and Greg’s blog that made me feel it was necessary to add my two cents on the local level. I hadn’t seen such bigotry in my community since I left the 1950s/1960s South. It needed to be condemned.

  34. Wolve

    Scout :
    “Jew York City” is not worse than “Hymietown”, Wolve. Nor is it worse than the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or explaining England’s declaration of war in 1939 as being caused by the British government having been taken over by international Jewry. It’s all the same toxic, anti-semitic, neo-Nazi garbage. Why would one justify the other? My question to you was whether there is any reason whatsoever that civilized Americans should react to such stuff and the people who purvey it with politeness and equanimity. I hope your answer will be a hearty Hell No. Your comment #41 suggests otherwise.
    @ Steve – sorry to hear that “2A activists”, regardless of religious affiliation publicly forgive. For what it’s worth (and it is worth a great deal to me) I don’t forgive this kind of stuff or the people who spread it around. It’s too dangerous.

    Jee whiz, Scout, it’s only a musician who runs off at the mouth once in awhile. It’s not like we’ve encountered a Grand Wizard of the KKK who is wearing a white sheet and raiding the homes of Jewish citizens. Nor is he alone in this contemporary culture in sticking an occasional foot in the mouth. Cool off, pal. If you feel a need to strike back, send that donation. The war-stricken Eastern Ukraine has turned into a living hell for a lot of Jews who would like to get out.

  35. Wolve

    Actually, I am less concerned by this Nugent guy blurting out some nonsense on an American blog than I am by Jews in Israel getting stabbed by Palestinians in the so-called “knife intifada” and an apparent increase in anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe so disheartening that even some French Jews are now making the “aliyah” to Israel.

    1. That kind of hate has to start somewhere. If Nugget’s anti semitism is acceptable then where does it stop?

  36. Scout

    It’s OK to be concerned about all these things, Wolve. Nugent’s apparent views encourage and enable things such as those you mention.

    If Nugent were an unknown drunk on a street corner, one might minimize or rationalize away the impact of what he says. He is, however, as I said above, someone of some notoriety who has had material success in this country and who is apparently held in high enough esteem (oddly enough) in some circles to be placed on national boards of certain organizations. As I said to Steve, it doesnt make much difference to me which organizations these are. I’d feel the same way if it were General Motors or the local knitting society.

    We need to encourage a culture of not tolerating this kind of thing for a second. Letting these kind of sentiments creep into the general culture was what gave the Nazis the ability to demonize the German Jewish community in the 1930s. Not enough decent Germans roared back.

  37. Steve Thomas

    @Scout
    Scout,

    This is America. Every day, I hear or read something that disagree with, or find objectionable. As I unsuccessfully tried to point out in my initial comments, gun-owners are regularly demonized by politicians, the press, and certain celebs. Your advice was to “lose this” as an ineffective debate angle. I took offense to this. Now, you argue that I should be offended by the ignorant comments of an aging rock star, and shouldn’t tolerate any of this type of expression in society. Scout, I get what you are saying: hateful speech is counter to a civil society, and this is especially true when it is anti-Semitic in nature.

    I don’t know what faith you practice, what your lineage is, or even your real name. All I know, really, is that you are a right-of-center, legal professional, with whom I likely agree on numerous subjects. It is obvious that this issue struck a particularly sensitive nerve, for reasons I can only speculate, but in the end are immaterial. Hating someone simply because of their religion or lineage is stupid and potentially dangerous…on this we agree.

    But I am left scratching my head on this: If it is advisable for me to quit arguing that many 2nd Amendment supporters and NRA members are tired of being demonized for simply exercising their constitutional rights to keep and bear arms, and to free association, because you have determined this tactic to be ineffective, yet you continue to argue that we shouldn’t tolerate at any level any speech that demonizes another group for their connection to a religion or ethnicity, and we should tar and feather anyone who does?

    Anti-Semitic speech does offend me, but I’m not offended enough. Anti-gun owner/NRA member speech offends me, but I am being overly sensitive. Got it. Thanks for straightening me out, Scout.

  38. Wolve

    If I “roared back” every time somebody in the American entertainment industry said something goofy, they would start calling me the Lion of Loudoun.

    1. Snicker! Then you would have to change your blog persona.

  39. Scout

    My problem isn’t “goofiness”, Wolve. I think that should be very clear from the context of the post and the material that Nugent broadcast. The Nazis were not “goofy”. They were dangerous killers. The material that Nugent sent forward was pure Nazi-era propaganda directed at a particular religious group. It’s every bit as bad as a lot of the anti-Muslim hate-propaganda that gets circulated today, with the added fillip that it has strong, mass murderous, historical precedent.

    Steve, I don’t think it requires much speculation to sense my alarm about this. It only requires some knowledge of what happened in Europe in the 1930s and 40s and some familiarity with the anti-Jewish propaganda of that was cranked out to set the stage for the holocaust. The piece that Nugent circulated could easily have been taken directly from that time. Since you asked about my faith and ‘lineage”, I’ll level with you (even though I don’t think it’s relevant to the discussion). I am Protestant Christian of substantial German descent. From a DNA perspective, I would have fit neatly into Goebbels’ and Himmler’s archetype of an “Aryan” male. (far better than either of them, if appearances mean anything). I am something of an amateur historian. I know 20th Century Europe very well.

    You can argue all you want that the NRA is demonized. That is your prerogative. However, my point is not about the NRA, qua NRA. It only becomes an NRA issue if the NRA doesn’t react decently to this kind of insanity from Nugent or if NRA sympathizers seem to make excuses for it. Nugent should be run out of any organization whose boards he sits on. I think I made that clear. I’m not confining this to the NRA. As I said above, not everything is about guns. This is about Nugent and American values and how we react to this kind of poison.

  40. Steve Thomas

    Well Scout, I am a bit more than an amateur historian. While 1930’s and 40’s Germany was the ultimate manifestation of hatred and persecution of the Jews, Jews weren’t the only group demonized. Romani people, Slavs and other groups were also targeted. Furthermore, discrimination and persecution of Jews wasn’t isolated to Germany, nor was it restricted to this particular time-frame. Some pretty famous Americans, were either openly or privately, Anti-Semitic. These included Charles Lindbergh, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, FDR, Ezra Pound, just to name a few. Clearly this list demonstrates an intellectual capacity far exceeding that of “The Motor City Madman”. Please let me know when you plan to call out any and all organizations, both public and private, that failed to denounce their individual views, and especially those that failed to disassociate. Then, begin scouring social media, and launch a campaign to censure every celebrity, politician, op-ed writer, jurist, etc. who has ever made a stupid, ignorant, or offensive public statement, or repeated such.

    Let the censorship commence. You’ve got quite a task ahead of you

  41. I belong to a movement (no longer specific organizations) that is every bit as polarizing as the NRA–perhaps even more so.

    I am trying to think of someone comparable in my field of activism. I can’t. Reproductive Rights people try to be extremely circumspect about how they speak.

    I think Nugent ought to be called out also. I have tried to explain the damage he does to the reputation of the NRA with ordinary people who may not have a dog in the fight. He does represent the organization because of his volume. To diminish his importance might not be within your control. Whatever he says will stick to the NRA. I don’t think you want that.

    My group is demonized also by all sorts of people. About as gross as it got was the double entendre shirts about Cooch from the Cooch Watch girls.

    There certainly is more room for misbehavior since my issues deal with reproduction and therefore can take on a sexual overtone at the drop of a hat.

    Perhaps I am basking in my own self righteousness that my issues don’t have a institutionalized bad girl or bad boy to embarrass us.

  42. Steve Thomas

    @MoonHowler
    Moon,

    While I am not too sure that you and I are on common ground, I am sure we are on mutually relatable ground. I will admit, I know little regarding the institutional organizations that advocate for, or combat the infringement of, your “go to the mat” issue. They are mostly names to me. It would be educational for me, and I hope others, if you could ID the preeminent organization of which you identify as a member, and describe the organization’s structure. The NRA is a dues-paying membership organization, where board level leadership is elected by life-member and endowment-member level members. Annual-level is non-voting.

    We may not be able to have an “apples to apples” discussion, but even and “apples to oranges” discussion could be productive. Apples to Eggs…not so much. The “bad girl/guys”who pop into my mind are Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Leah Dunham..but before I make my case, I’d like to be on relatable ground. Clearly, Nugent has rubbed you and Scout the wrong way. I see Nugent as a mental midget who attempted to use the concept of irony to prove a pro-2A point, and ended up looking pretty stupid. All of those I listed have rubbed me the wrong way. I just want to validate my assumptions, prior to.

    1. I was a member of NARAL. I am very supportive of Planned Parenthood. I don’t belong to anything now. Torch passed but that is not say it won’t work its way back around again.
      Those are my go to the matt issues. I was also a member of NEA for many years….not by choice but so I could be a member of the state and local organizations. I ignored them and they ignored me. I have nothing against them….they were just fairly irrelevant in my world.

      Let’s start with Leah Dunham. I am thinking of Rick Bentley now because he always defended her. I thought she was gross and unacceptable. I don’t think she was ever a spokes person for my groups, at least I hope not. Cecile Richards, Faye Wattleton, Kate Michaelman were my peeps.

      I have no problem with Hillary or Barbara Boxer as far as reproductive rights go. They aren’t spokeswomen–more legislative. While you might not agree with them, I don’t think they have made crude remarks or anti semiotic remarks. Now, there are some comedians out there who can be fairly crude but I don’t think they sit on any boards.

      I think we have an apples to oranges situation, mainly based on different structure and hierarchy. What you described sounds more NEA to me…and I will not be defending it or underfunding it. Just is.

      Nugget does rub me the wrong way. I can’t speak for Scout, however. I agree with you about Nugent. I just wouldn’t want him representing my organization in any way. He’s sort of like the bad frat member who has paid his dues and who you want to run off but somehow can’t.

      I guess my only thing is, I don’t think your membership subsets should be appeased. However, it isn’t my call.

  43. Steve Thomas

    @MoonHowler
    Moon,
    Thank You. For the same reason that I (gently) requested a bit of background from Scout, (to which he graciously responded), you have also. My motives are nothing more to attempt to ascertain the starting point, so as to figure out the straightest line to a point where we can meet. I am an 18 year business-to-business sales professional by trade. Finding affinity is the straightest line to agreement. Surprisingly, I did not learn this from a superstar salesmen. I learned this from a brother-in-Christ…a pastor who happens to be a black man. He told me “I can see that you want to understand where I am coming from. I love that about you, my brother. We can talk the whole day long about our mutual love of Christ, and find commonality of faith and belief. You and I can even share commonality in having been persecuted by other people due to the color of our skin (I had shared how there were places in Boston, where I would’ve been beaten, simply for being on the wrong public bus, in the wrong section of town). What he said next, gave me a great deal of pause: “Until you have been pulled over by a police officer, a man granted authority from above, and asked what business you had in a particular neighborhood at 12am, you can’t completely understand where I am coming from. I was coming from ministering to a family, who had just experienced a death. They were blessed to live in a nice neighborhood. Even though they were also black, they were a tarity, and so was I. In that moment, I finally understood many of the conversations I had with them, previously. I was angry…then I realized who was doing this, who wants us to be divided, so he can exploit us. I forgave the cop for judging me by what he saw, acknowledged his authority and duty to prevent crime, blessed him in his vocation, and went on my way. But, I also gave him my card, and said if anyone reports a break-in, mugging, or other crime, please call me, and I will provide my whereabouts…sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

    1. While not as “dangerous” as being black, being female in certain places, especially after dark also is an invitation to be stopped.

      There is a certain amount of bullying that can go on as well. Around here, it could lead to worse. But I digress…back to straight paths.

  44. scout

    Steve- I’m just not following your logic. Idiots can say anything they want to in this country. Even evil idiots. Nor am I addressing every cruel or ignorant comment made by every American who ever lived. If Col. Lindbergh or Uncle Walt sends out an anti-Jewish screed on social media in the coming weeks, I would say about them what I’ve said about Nugent and strongly suggest that they be removed from any Boards they sit on. However, it strikes me as relevant to the present discussion that those people happen to be fairly dead and haven’t been posting up much lately.

    I further don’t get the point about the breadth of Nazi mass murder extending beyond the Jews. I would be just as offended if Nugent similarly slimed any of the groups that the Nazis persecuted.

  45. Steve Thomas

    Scout, what I am gently sugesting to a man I have never met, but would very much like to, is to reserve your ire and condemnation to those who actually matter. I am as pro-2A, pro-NRA, Pro-Israel as they come. My Lord and savior was a jewish carpenter. My patron saint was a repentent jewish pharisee. My specialization in my major course of study was eastern front, in WW2. I inquired as to your background, attempting to find common ground, or at least understand from where your considerable outrage stems. Please understand that I choose to approach this from a position of, (what I hope is correctly interpreted) a position respect (tempered by humility), and hope you will accept in the spirit with which it is offered. After all these years, on this blog, me publicly writing these sorts of things is not, my usual style. So please accept this: Ted Nugent means nothing. If you choose to regard his ignorant and inept statement as something you would otherwise scrape from your shoe, fine with me. But understand that in the “big picture” his impact and influence mean little or nothing”. Your choice whether or not to let it go, is of course, yours. I will not advise either way. Peace.

  46. Steve Thomas

    MoonHowler :
    While not as “dangerous” as being black, being female in certain places, especially after dark also is an invitation to be stopped.
    There is a certain amount of bullying that can go on as well. Around here, it could lead to worse. But I digress…back to straight paths.

    Moon,
    Since I cannot claim to have ever been a woman in the wrong place after dark, I cannot conceptualize what this means. But, as a male with an outsized protective nature, if the woman is armed and trained, and I had a role in her gaining such a condition, well, I have fulfilled my duty.

    I lived in Japan for 4.5 years. It is, today, a segregated society. We defeated them, but there remains places where I would be stopped and questioned were I found to be there after dark. There are publicly accessible places where I would be legally denied access. There are places where I would receive public disdain, if I was escorting a Japanese woman. I can say this with 100% certainty, because all of these things happened to me. I was “gaijin”…which literally means “barbarian” , but really means “non-Japanese”. Not Caucasian. Not Black. Not Korean. Non-Japanese. 4.5 years doesn’t compare to a lifetime, but I have experienced real discrimination. Probably the biggest reason I am today married to a (wonderfully awesome) American woman of Cuban decent, and not a Japanese national.

    1. I don’t know if this still goes on but women coming out of bars in the evening used to be targeted. They are targeted for DUI. I had it happen once to me. Funny thing, I had dropped off a friend in the bar parking lot, I wasnt actually coming out of the bar, but who knew. Anyway, I got the broken tail light, speeding for conditions routine before the dog and pony show test for field sobriety. I was sober but I can’t pass a field sobriety test stone cold sober.

      I have many other women friends who have had this same experience. Then there were the women who had to deal with Buck Carter. I did but he had my kid.

      As for discrimination, I mostly felt that regarding my education.

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