Let me first say that I see no moral equivalence between the KKK, Nazi, and any antifa groups. This loosely knit organization has been around a long time and I don’t think anyone has every heard their spokesperson talk about killing any group of people. We cannot say the same for Nazis or for the KKK.

I  do not condone the behavior of this group. This is 2017. We should be able to settle our difference politically and otherwise without brawling, especially with the intent to harm or maim others. I also don’t approve of property damage. Would I put this group on the terrorist list? Yes, probably. I just wouldn’t equate them with Nazis or with the KKK.

That was a critical mistake on the part of Donald J. Trump.  There is no “Alt-Left.”  I don’t believe that anyone in the Democratic party mainstream claims this group or feels that it speaks for the Democrats.  That assignment has been handed forth by the “Alt-right” and it is based on a false premise.

Meanwhile, lets continue to condemn the KKK and the Neo-Nazis for their repugnant ideology.  Both organizations, whether original or “neo” have horrible, un-Americans beliefs.

Let’s condemn the behavior of groups like Antifa who act like street thugs, while agreeing that there IS a significant difference.

37 Thoughts to “Trevor Noah on Antifa”

  1. Kelly_3406

    Marc Thiessen of the Washington Post would disagree with you about moral equivalency. He states that because Antifa promotes violence as “ethically justifiable and strategically effective” and is composed primarily of communists, marxists, and anarchists, which derives from a murderous ideology that killed millions under Stalin and others, it IS the moral equivalent of the KKK and neo-nazis.

    I tend to agree with him. The first 1/3 of my military career was focused on defense against totalitarian communism, which killed hundreds of peaceful protesters on live TV in Tiananmen Square in 1989. Antifa uses the same tactics, except that it employs fists and sticks, instead of tanks, against protesters with whom it disagrees, all while city/state officials look the other way. This implicit support of thugs by cities/states/college Administrations to suppress opposing ideologies in places like Berkeley and Charlottesville is reminiscent of early-1930s Germany. God help us if Antifa ever gets tanks and military weapons.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-antifa-is-the-moral-equivalent-of-neo-nazis/2017/08/30/9a13b2f6-8d00-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html?utm_term=.749c10fa9ca7

    1. I saw the article and I rejected it. (earlier, before you posted) I am not sure how anyone really knows that American antifa or those who fly their banner are comprised of people supporting communists or marxists, whatever that means. To me, that is just a bright shiny object. As for anarchists…well…That’s all a matter of degree….as in libertarian on steroids. Nazis? Up in the millions and still bragging about it. (see article I linked to.)

      How many people have Antifa killed? To my knowledge, none. Who killed Heather Heyer? Someone who claimed to be a Nazi. Who wounded, some seriously, about 20 more people? Someone who claimed to be a Nazi.

      I think all of them are thugs. Don’t get me wrong. But they all aren’t in the same league of thug-hood. Regardless, Trump was stupid beyond belief to try to equate “both sides.”

      All the white supremacists came under that banner. Many people in cville came to peacefully protest the presence of the KKK and other white supremacist groups. Some of those people who aligned with being against the supremacist groups came to do battle. Once again trump engaged his mouth before his brain and it was a bad idea.

      The way to NOT hold antifa responsible is to do what Trump did.

      1. NorthofNokesville

        MoonHowler,

        Where Trump’s “both sides” comment fails utterly for me is the “sides” part. In Charlottesville, antifa was just part of the opposition, ie, a sliver of a side. The neo-Nazi types were the other side, so he’s equating a partial bad to a total bad. It’s like a bad apple vs an entirely bad barrel.

        Ideologically, to the extent they conform to their antecedents, both side broadly are repugnant. And both lift banners soaked in blood. Communism became a tool for violence almost immediately, then morphed into a huge state-driven death machine in the cases of Russia and China (also quite at odds with Marx’s original vision, which is worth reading, even if you disagree). Communism also had its apologists (Sartre for example) who overlooked atrocities for some “greater good.” Camus was by the far the most intellectually honest of the bunch in eschewing cruelty and seeing the evil that could be done in the name of a good cause (and not just re: communism, but re: colonialism). And this strain of violence has been part of the fringe left for a long time, just adhering to different issues (race, ecology, labor struggles, etc). It’s an open question …. how much does the ideology inspire the violence versus how much is just a cover?

        Side note: I think many left anarchists would object to being associated with contemporary libertarianism, because left anarchists see economic arrangements as potentially just as coercive as political/force-based ones.

        The Nazi / KKK thing is equally twisted and fascinating, and also somewhat incoherent (high-culture vs. low/no-culture; quasi-occult vs quasi-religious; totalitarian state for all vs. state as barrier to “them”; interventionist economics and industrial policy vs not really sure …). I also think the open question applies here. How much do these folks really believe this stuff? Sure, some do. How many are simply angry and this fills a void in a particularly ugly way?

        Either way, the best policy is to eschew political violence either way. And I’m glad mainstream institutions (which do tend to exhibit a more or less liberal consensus) are calling out Antifa when appropriate and not giving them a pass. It’s actually modeling the right behavior for what POTUS should do on the right.

      2. Kelly_3406

        NorthofNokesville,

        There was a conservative group in Charlottesville that protested the removal of historical monuments and was not aligned with the neo-Nazis/KKK. One has read to about the 13th paragraph in the linked NYTimes article to find the reference, but it was definitely there.

        Who knows how many conservatives participated in the protest? The cynic in me could easily believe that there was no effort to determine their number because it would contradict the narrative that only racists went to Charlottesville to protest the removal of Confederate statues.

        https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/us/politics/trump-republicans-race.html?smid=tw-share&mtrref=undefined

      3. And another thing…it is finally becoming clear….There are a whole lot of people out there who think like I do. We deplore KKK, Nazis, and white Supremacy. Let’s just be honest…we think they are white trash. We don’t like racial identity politics. We think that those who categorize and label things in binary terms such as racist/not racist lack depth, understanding and intellect.

        With this in mind, Trump just blew it. He needed to renounce white supremacy. He could have upheld people of decency while saying that some people just gathered for a fight. Antifa could have been called out at another time. But oh no. He couldn’t just take the high road. He strode right down the old road to hell with its bad intentions and dragged the party with him. He had all the moderates forced right on over to the racial identity folks, by default.

        That’s why Trump is no leader.

        Right now, I feel like I am going through culture genocide. Unless I denounce a bronze statue, I am a racist. In whose world does this even make sense?

        I will never allow myself to be pigeon-holed like that.

        Meanwhile, I hope this ridiculous man doesn’t drag us down the path to WWIII or nuclear war. I fear that is what he is doing.

      4. Here is my issue—Antifa doesn’t bill itself as communist. Perhaps some members are, some aren’t. Perhaps some are just the rough edge of social justice or their perceived idea of social justice. I think if I had to classify them I would get out my anarchist stamp.

        Regardless, I knew what Trump was actually saying–and he shouldn’t have said it. It got him in massive hot water. He equated the unequal without explanation. Had he explained in terms of those who committed violence…and called out who and what they did. by name, he might have informed people more. Instead he was just a smart ass.

        This is a complicated issue. As a defender of statues of that era as art and as part of the ethos of Charlottesville, and the south in general. I sure don’t want the KKK or any white supremacist group or Nazis speaking for me. They don’t. They also don’t give a crap about the statues. It was just a reason to strut their stuff.

        I happen to like equestrian statues. The one Jackson is riding was modeled on McIntire’s favorite mount. Additionally, I believe that reconstruction and extreme poverty has been left out of the discussion. McIntire returned home after making his fortune and gave back to his home town.

        Finally, I have no objection to other memorials being added to the parks. More is better. For the life of me, I don’t know why the black activists want to add memorials dealing with slavery. It is so negative. I would want to honor community leaders. My idea would be to erect a memorial to those first black students to integrated Lane High School. That must have been horribly frightening for young people. I have read where some want a plaque to someone who was lynched for assaulting a woman. I am horribly opposed to lynching but I sure don’t want a plaque honoring a person who might have assaulted a woman. [slapping forehead]

        I don’t know. Maybe I am just out of touch. Maybe its cool to dwell on slavery and other negative components of society. To me, it reeks of victimhood and it lacks any positive element.

  2. Robin Hood

    When people make excuses for Nazis and Klansmen they are telling you who they really are, sympathizers. The Antifa dodge doesn’t work for me because I haven’t seen them brandish weapons yet, but there is still no excuse for violence on either side. Lock them up if they hurt anybody.

  3. Steve Thomas

    Moon,

    Kinda gonna have to disagree with you, on the whole “Moral Equivalence”, as it is an appeal to ignorance. The Neo-Nazis of today, idolize what Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers Party stood for ideologically. Hitler didn’t create the Nazis. He shaped and popularized the Nazis. He took control of the Nazi Party and used it as a vehicle to seize and consolidate power. No question they were evil, in the truest sense of the word, not just because of what they believed, but for putting their beliefs into action. They did kill millions of people systematically approximately 6 million Jews, and another 5 Million non-Jews, in addition to those who died as a direct or indirect result of military operations in their war of conquest. Today’s Neo-Nazis lack the power and societal acceptance to put their beliefs into action. They are not capable implementing much more than a march or a protest of I am thankful for this. Never Again.

    The KKK of today, seeks to preserve the ideologies of the KKK in it’s reconstruction heyday, which peaked during desegregation and the civil-rights era. In much the same way as negatieve societal views of the Nazis prevent Neo-Nazis from gaining the acceptance and power efficacy requires, the same holds true of the Klan. The FBI broke the back of the Klan, and even in the deep south, they haven’t been able to gain any real traction toward regaining their “former glory”. The best estimates put the total number of Klan victims, which included Blacks, Jews, Catholics AND Republicans, at 5000-6,000. Terrible. Evil to be sure

    So what about Antifa? I think your inability to draw a moral equivalence stems from a lack of awareness as to who Antifa really is. Never mind the piss poor job the MSM has done explaining what and who they are. “Antifa” as been around for a long time. They are Anarcho-Communists. The FBI has identified them as such. They trace their lineage directly back to the International Comintern, in much the same way as the Neo-Nazis of today, claim lineage back to the 3rd Reich . Some are Stalinists, others Maoists. Their idols are Che’ Guevara and Hugo Chavez. They had a shot at legitimacy with Bernie Sanders. Don’t be fooled. A Democratic Socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union is just a communist in a new suit. Antifa’s singular goal is to create so much civil disorder that the capitalist system collapses, and true communism. They were part of the Occupy Movement. They are part of the WTO protests…the ones who did the actual rioting. Their constituent organizations include Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). SDS has such an innocent-sounding name, but don’t be fooled. They are pure marxists. Listen to Greg Lucero, founder of the Revolutionary Students Union (part of SDS). Check out his writings over at MarxistLenninist.wordpress.com or better yet, his gofundme page https://www.gofundme.com/35zp2ddc where he’s soliciting funds to “F*&K SH%T up in Chicago”

    Stalin killed more Soviet citizens than did Hitler. Mao killed more Chinese than did the Japanese. How many Cambodians did Pol Pot kill? How about the Kim Dynasty in North Korea? How many Cubans did Castro kill? How about Che Guevara? Hugo Chavez? What do these names have in common? They are all Communists (or Socialists, but I repeat myself), and they are all Mass Murderers. They didn’t kill because of race. They killed for ideological and economic reasons. Doesn’t really matter though, their victims are just as dead. Millions upon Millions of them.

    I have no trouble drawing the equivalence. Evil is Evil. The motivation, be it race, religion, economic or political, all are evil.

    1. Where we disagree is really over who was in Charlottesville fighting with the white supremacists. Additionally, where Trump messed up was not providing a lesson on exactly who the “other side” was. Like I said, 2 months ago, most people hadn’t heard of Antifa. I am not really sure that is who was out there. I think it was a bunch of locals. I could be wrong. But Trump needed to explain “both sides.” Had he done so accrately, he wouldn’t have gotten in hot water.

      I still see no moral equivalence in this country between Nazis, KKK and other groups simply because of the history of both groups in relation to this country. KKK needs no introduction. Nazis–well, our ancestors fought those guys. Once they won, we uncovered their nasty behavior.

      Antifa, real or wannabe doesn’t pack the same punch with most Americans.

      I am also not sure that the KKK wants to resurrect the original KKK. But that’s a topic for another day.

      I think we can all agree that going out and beating the crap out of people is wrong. Had Trump explained why he said what he said, then those people who were out there fighting wouldn’t have gotten a pass. As it is, they skated.

      They might have been the same folks who in July boxed the KKK in and wouldn’t let them get to their cars to leave. Dooh! They were in court last week, I think. I hope they get more than a slap on the wrist. I agree, there is no innocence there. Right now, the public perception is that they were just fighting evil. I call that bing a vigilante.

  4. Robin Hood

    I’m always suspicious of longwinded and convoluted rationalizations as well.

    1. Steve Thomas

      Robin Hood,

      I can understand why some, when confronted with a detailed argument, choose not to expend the intellectual energy to process. Easier for them to exercise ambitious laziness and remain ignorant. Tough to browbeat facts, after all. I mean, instead of actually challenging my assertions, one could dismiss them as “convoluted”.

      If I were similarly inclined, I could adopt your debate tactics and encourage you to venture forth and engage in self-fornication.

      1. Robin Hood

        Steve Thomas,

        I can see why you want to believe that, but do you seriously expect anyone to buy a biased ranking of villains? They are all bad but you want us to accept that the ones at your end of the spectrum aren’t as bad as the ones from the other end?

        You owe me for the time I wasted reading and responding to what is total propaganda.

      2. Steve Thomas

        Robin Hood,

        “I can see why you want to believe that, but do you seriously expect anyone to buy a biased ranking of villains?”

        Are you THAT challenged in reading comprehension? I made no such argument that one set of mass murderers is worse than the other. Quite the contrary, and in accordance with the point of Moon’s post, I argued against her assertion that “Antifa is bad, but the current KKK and neo-Nazis are worse, because of their lineage. I believe they are ALL EQUALLY Evil. How many murders does one have to commit, in YOUR book, before one becomes evil? In mine, it takes only one.

        “hey are all bad but you want us to accept that the ones at your end of the spectrum aren’t as bad as the ones from the other end?” Again, you missed the point, as I was arguing it doesn’t matter which “side” of the ideological spectrum (which is in and of itself a manufactured lie. Nazis were totalitarian socialists, and socialism is a leftist ideology), Evil is Evil.

        “You owe me for the time I wasted reading and responding to what is total propaganda.”

        If you feel I owe you, PLEASE come collect on the debt. I promise to pay you back, with interest. But you won’t, because you are a coward. You hide behind a keyboard and a pseudonym, lacking the conviction of your beliefs and the intestinal fortitude to apply your real name to your comments, and worse, your attempts at insult. You are intellectually weak. Your every comment on this blog, going back to your first appearance here “Robin Hood”, demonstrates that. You hide. I don’t.

        So, if you aren’t willing to come and collect the debt in person, I would suggest you find a willing goat or sheep, and commence with the buggery.

      3. Robin Hood

        Steve Thomas,

        You really lose your temper when confronted, don’t you? I looked at your final body count paragraph close to the end of your early post yesterday and reacted to that because it fogged your earlier remarks. Frankly, it read like an internal monologue from Joyce’s Ulysses. Or maybe Finnegan’s Wake.

        Since you don’t know me you only get to judge what I write.That string of juvenile insults you unleashed doesn’t even belong on “a place for civil debate: a blog for grown ups.” You’re supposed to act like an adult, even in the heat of an argument.

      4. Steve Thomas

        Robin Hood,

        Coward. a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.
        synonyms: weakling, milksop, namby-pamby, mouse; chicken, scaredy-cat, yellow-belly, sissy, baby, candy-ass, milquetoast,

        To this I will add; Whimp, Wuss. Puke. Gelding. Castrato.

        Write what you want. Try to insult me. In the end you are nothing but a coward. Demand satisfaction, but don’t have the guts to try and take it. I don’t “lose my temper” with you. In order to do so, I would first have to respect you. I don’t. You lack testicular fortitude. Go play your trolling games over at TSON blog, as it is an arena of cowards. You are too scared to even sign your name, let alone face me.

        If you’ve read this far, please note: My original comment, the one you’ve taken so much issue with, wasn’t even addressed to you, you illiterate twit. It begins “Moon, Kinda gonna have to disagree with you…”

        I didn’t write “Robin Hood, you pseudonymous coward, when you have a moment to spare from your life as a keyboard commando, please chime in here, because I so value your opinion”.

        You hid behind a shadow of anonymity. No better than the Klan and their hoods, or Antifa and their masks. An intellectual and physical coward.

      5. Robin Hood

        Steve Thomas,

        I rode out last year’s hurricane in Florida. You don’t know me and I get to use a pen name because I value privacy. You don’t make the rules here and your rude comments say more about you than you can imagine.

      6. I question who is at which end of the spectrum actually. I will go with Steve Bannon’s Alt-right. (his words, not mine) After that, I am not sure that the KKK, Nazis, anarchists, White Supremacists belong on any end. They all just are horrible people.

      7. Steve Thomas

        MoonHowler,
        “They all just are horrible people.”
        On this I think we can agree.

        Note to “Robin Hood”: This comment is addressed to Moon. I know Moon. We’ve shared meals and have raised glasses together. She is my friend, whose opinion I value. You’re right, I don’t know you. You hide. Like a coward. Act like an adult? I am an Adult Man. I am willing to stand by my comments, and face those with whom I disagree. You cannot make the same claim.

      8. Robin Hood

        Steve Thomas,

        On your level the best response is from childhood. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

        You need to be careful about making threats to seniors. We have canes.

      9. Steve Thomas

        Robin Hood,

        You are a coward. Old, young…doesn’t matter. You lack the fortitude to sign your name to your comments.

      10. Robin Hood

        Steve Thomas,

        That’s not what it is at all. Some of us have professional lives separate from our personal opinions and have to be prudent about it, even when merely supplementing retirement.

        You keep up with the adolescent rage and insults and don’t bother checking your blood pressure. I’m enjoying this.

      11. Steve Thomas

        Robin Hood,
        “Some of us have professional lives separate from our personal opinions and have to be prudent about it, even when merely supplementing retirement.”

        In other words, some (you) are more worried about what others will think, or the potential costs associated with expressing your opinion, than you are about the strength of your convictions. You are a moral coward, because you risk nothing to express your opinion. Physics teaches that Force=MassXAcceleration(squared). What is the mass of nothing? It is nothing. So, it doesn’t matter how much you accelerate your arguments, they have no mass, and thus, no force. All because you are a coward. Instead of “Robin Hood”, might I suggest you change your alias to Jack McCall or Robert Ford? More fitting, as ” “Cowards dare others to do what they themselves do not dare to do.” Ste

      12. Robin Hood

        Steve Thomas,

        Part of being prudent is knowing to ignore petty provocations from simpleminded people. Be careful what you wish for, as the saying goes.

  5. Kelly_3406

    I browsed a few Antifa websites this weekend to gain a little insight about this “movement.” What I gained was an understanding that this organization is truly chilling.

    Notwithstanding the history provided by Steve Thomas, Antifa has essentially become the radical “muscle” of the progressive movement. It labels any action/viewpoint that it disagrees with politically (e.g. deporting illegal aliens, repealing Obamacare, denying funding to Planned Parenthood, pulling out of the PARIS climate agreement, escalating the fight against ISIS) as fascist, and calls on its supporters to oppose its foes “by any means necessary,” including violence.

    It views the election as illegitimate because the Trump “regime” is fascist and therefore must be stopped before it is “too late.” It seeks millions of people to rise up and “drive out the Trump/Pence regime.” It plans to sponsor massive demonstrations, occupations and riots on November 4th in an effort to end the Trump/Pence regime.

    I would be hard pressed to choose whether Antifa or the KKK/Neo-Nazis are worse. They are both repugnant and unAmerican.

    1. Kelly, I don’t disagree with the discussion we are having here. I am not sure all I saw doing the fighting in cville (who weren’t kkk/Nazi) are “Antifa.” I did a crash course myself about 2-3 months ago after asking Steve about them. My only points are 1. that I am not sure all the fighters were antifa or wannabes. 2. Trump blew it the way he said it. I don’t want those little POS’s to have a pass because I observed their violence, whoever they were. I mean let’s face it—the KKK and the Nazis weren’t fighting each other that day, at least. So who were they?

      Trump needed to condemn those who came to cville to have the Klan rally. He needed to condemn white supremacy. Period. That is what those keeps came to town to do…strut their stuff. This was no the time to start talking about sides.

      He could have come back in a day or two and condemned the violence. In face, he should have. Then he could call them all out by name–those groups who had been violent.

      Antifa, for all its bad behavior (and usually for causes I support, I might add) isn’t part of white supremacy. Therefore, I don’t think there is moral equivalence. The white supremacy groups are in a class all to themselves.

      Hopefully the FBI has branded antifa and is keeping them in their sights. Unfortunately, the liberal fighters got a pass on the 12th. I don’t want white supremacists speaking for me about how I feel about statues. I don’t want antifa speaking for me about their causes(e.g. deporting illegal aliens, repealing Obamacare, denying funding to Planned Parenthood, pulling out of the PARIS climate agreement, escalating the fight against ISIS) .

      Most of us don’t want extremists speaking for us. I saw some pretty nasty BLM behavior also. They got a pass also. I think the situation there is that some very decent people belong to that organization and so do some real POS’s like the one I saw using a spray can as mini-napalm. There is a very violent subset of that organization that needs to be called out.

  6. Richard Hurtz

    There is no “Alt-Left.” That assignment has been handed forth by the “Alt-right” and it is based on a false premise. – Not true… as I’ve mentioned before the term “Alt-Left” was first used by Joy Reid and Maureen Dowd on MSNBC to smear Sanders supporters during the Democrat primary.

    I don’t believe that anyone in the Democratic party mainstream claims this group or feels that it speaks for the Democrats – You may want to ask Democrat Vice Presidential candidate Tim Kaine about that to be sure. His son is member of Antifa and has been arrested for participating in violent acts at demonstrations. His charges include fleeing police, obstructing a legal process, and concealing his identity in a public place. Tim Kaine still refuses to condemn Antifa which is shocking considering this guy was so close to being our VP. So the statement that nobody “in the Democratic party mainstream claims this group” is only 1/2 true. While Timmy doesn’t claim the group he claims his son who is a member of the group who has been arrested and he refuses to condemn the group. Scary…

    1. Can you offer proof that Tim Kaine supports antifa? It sure doesn’t sound like him at all.

      Oh, he doesn’t claim the group…but he claims his son. Would you claim your son, even if he did something you didn’t like? I think most of us would. You still love your kid, even when you want to kick them 7 ways to Sunday.

      I think you are making a quantum leap saying that young Woody Kaine is a member of “antifa.” I think too many people are willing to throw everyone under that banner. Young Woody needs to remember that he is a senators son and conduct himself more responsibly. I think we can all agree on that point. However, do you expect Kaine to disown his son?

      1. Richard Hurtz

        MoonHowler,

        Can you offer proof that Tim Kaine supports antifa? No because I never said that Tim Kaine “supports antifa”. I said that he refuses to condemn them. President Trump has been blasted on this site (and rightfully so in some cases) by you and many others for what he said, or didn’t say, after the Charlottesville violence. Why is it so hard to do the same with VP candidate sitting VA senator Tim Kaine?

        I think you are making a quantum leap saying that young Woody Kaine is a member of “antifa.” I think too many people are willing to throw everyone under that banner. Young Woody Kaine? He isn’t a 12 year old boy, he’s a 24 year old grown man. Quantum leap? Look at the picture in this link about 1/4 of the way down showing Woody Kaine dressed in all black from head-to-toe including the signature face mask. He wasn’t just some innocent bystander, dressed in all black, that just happened to show up at a pro-Trump rally and got swept up in antifa violence. That is like saying a guy dressed in KKK sheets and hood was arrested for participating in a violent clan rally but it would be a “quantum leap” to say he was a member of the KKK.

        Also, can we finally put this debunked notion that the “Alt-left” term was propagated by the “Alt-right” and agree that it was first used by Hillary Clinton supporters on MSNBC during the primary to smear Sanders supporters?

      2. Richard Hurtz

        Richard Hurtz,

        Maybe young Woody was just taking directions from his father old Timmy’s violent rhetoric, when he said that Democrats just need to “fight in the streets”…

      3. I suppose you have never used figurative language?

        That was harmless violent rhetoric. Don’t be such a wuss.

      4. Proof: You strongly implied that Kaine supported Antifa. I feel certain he doesn’t. He is a rather peaceful person and he also has done missionary work. Most missionaries don’t espouse violence. I am sure he loves his son. I am sure my parents didn’t stop loving me when I did clinic defense, even though they didn’t espouse my doing so.

        Why are you conservatives so hell bent on lumping all the freaks of nature in one basket? Why the obsession with Antifa? Would they have been out there if the KKK and the neo-Nazis were not there? Probably not. Let’s just say the good people of cville just wanted to have a peaceful demonstrations against the statues. I doubt seriously if Antifa would have bothered to show up. No guts, no glory.

        I am opposed to them also. They, in my mind, are thugs. But I am not obsessed with them. I don’t think in terms of oneupmanship. My thug for your thug.

        Quantum leap- 24 to me is young.

        Just because you dress in black ( I often do) doesn’t make you a member of “Antifa.” What does Young Woody say he belongs to? Wearing all black doesn’t make you a member of anything. Shaving your head doesn’t make you a neo nazi, even at a demonstration. My son and Dog Breath both shave their heads. Neither is a neo Nazi. Wearing a swastika? That might just do it. Wearing a hood and sheets—that is a little different. I think if a person shows up in sheets and a hood, they might just be KKK.

        I don’t know who propagated Alt-left. The first I heard it said was by DJT. Does it really matter? I think all sorts of groups are “alt-left” in may own mind. Doesn’t mean I am going to publically brand them as such.

      5. Richard Hurtz

        MoonHowler,

        You strongly implied that Kaine supported Antifa That is not how I intended my comment but I can see how you would think that. I do not think that he supports Antifa and he has said as much in interviews but he is the only one in the Democrat party mainstream that refuses to condemn them that I can think of.

        Why does he refuse to condemn them? Because he said that he “doesn’t know enough about them” and that he doesn’t want to “paint with a broad brush”.

        Just because you dress in black ( I often do) doesn’t make you a member of “Antifa.” What does Young Woody say he belongs to? Wearing all black doesn’t make you a member of anything. I agree with you because I use to shave my head when I was a carpenter (easier to get sawdust off of you) and was looked at sideways sometimes. However, when you dress in black do you also wear a black hood, black face mask like this?

        (This is a picture of Woody Kaine that police used to identify him just before he threw either fireworks or a smoke bomb into a crowed building before running away.)

        http://canadafreepress.com/images/uploads/BOMBTHROWERS031417-1f.jpg

        According to police reports after young Woody Kaine threw a firework or smoke bomb into the crowded room he ran off and then attempted to hide his identity by stripping off his mask, hood, and sweatshirt and turned some articles of clothing inside-out. When the police did identify him he resisted arrest and, again according to the police report, it took three officers, pepper spray and a ‘knee strike’ to finally subdue young Woody Kaine. He is facing multiple charges.

        But maybe young Woody was just taking direction from his father when he said in an interview with MSNBC that Democrats just need to “fight in the streets”.

      6. I don’t care what Young Woody does one way or the other unless he is in my town or my neighborhood. I would hope the cops would take care of him if he is misbehaving or committing crimes. His father is not responsible for him. Like you said, he is 24 years old (which is young to me).

        Your obvious obsession is to discredit his father in the upcoming election by labeling his kid “antifa.” I looked at his outfit and he might have belonged to any number of groups that are out there: BLM, this group or that group. Now don’t get me wrong. I don’t like any of the young thugs that have sprung to the forefront in the past 5 years. However, adult kids have been known to do things that embarrass us or make us angry. (Just you wait…)

        I am sure Corey will appreciate your obsession should he win his party’s nomination to run for senate. Me? I have always liked Tim Kaine and will be supporting him. I will forgive him about his kid if he will forgive one of mine. Meanwhile, watch out for that fighting at the ballot box.

      7. I am all for enforcing the existing laws about face coverings and masks in Virginia. Perhaps more states ought to follow suit and enforce more strictly. Charlottesville certainly didn’t use the laws the state had on the books. I would have liked to have seen something like–covered face? Immediate arrest.

        In fairness to cville–they simply weren’t prepared for what hit them. Cville is basically a small city that deals with murders, lots of trunks, and old kids away from home for the first time. What hit them was an urban element that needed riot gear, tanks and equestrian patrol.

        I have often laughed at some of the conservatives who felt that localities wasted their homeland security money on such frivolity. Nothing moves a crowd like riot gear, horses, and tanks. I don’t think cville will be fooled again. All college towns had better wake up and smell what might be coming.

        I have a close friend/relative who is part of a major university system. You can rest assured that the universities sat up and took notice and assessed how UVA went wrong. The exchange took place within the week, on a national level.

        I am so sick of all these social movements on campuses that I could barf. Kids on campuses have it better than most of the world–the fact that they are on a campus. I want them to SDASTFU.

        Watch The Vietnam War. If kids back then, males, didn’t keep their grades up, their asses were snatched out of school and drafted. Then they could go get killed in ‘Nam. So what are these whining babies blubbering about? Some GD plague on a wall in iconic building? Probably some poor woman used her grocery money to honor her son/husband/brother/father on the plaque for having served in the military of the Confederacy. Why would we take down a list of names of any alumni?

        Young Woody is just another wart on the butt of society right now, in my mind. If he cared about his parents, he would behave. But kids today are way too entitled to think about anyone other than themselves.

        BTW, Dick, you do know that this is all a reaction to tRump? Kids did the same thing over LBJ and Tricky Dick. Its some sort of rite of passage. I guess each generation gets to be stupid. I just don’t see how taking down plaques is going to help anyone other than the person working on removing said plaque. They get to feel all warm and fuzzy before they melt.

  7. Richard Hurtz

    Odd… seems like some of my posts vanished.

    1. I have not removed your posts and other than Dog Breath, who doesn’t know you from Adam’s ass, no one else has access to this blog.

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